Flushes in Omaha

Alright i am getting so frustrated playing omaha and having people hit their flushes on me when I have a set, straight etc.


Is it profitable at all to play when their is two flush cards on a flop? I understand how different Omaha is from HE but It just seems like I lose too much money from this situation and should lay more hands down.

Advice?

lol FYI, this is 25PLO on FT or UB BTW

In omaha i never play a flush lower than a Queen high. I have found that out the hard way low flushes are usually no good depending on how high the board cards are to the flush. As for playin the set. I have found out that if the board has 3 cards to a straight or 2 cards to a flush i fold 70% of the time. But if i flop my set of Kings for instance with a flop like 2 9 K all rainbow of course i like to bet it hard. But with a flop of lets say K 10 9 with 2 suited cards and i flopped my set of Kings I fold alot more
I guess the best advice i could give you is to go with your gut and I always give the other player credit of having the nuts or a big draw. Hope this helps

It's profitable, because you're playing for the board to pair OR the last flush card not to hit. If I have three of a kind, I try to get out of the hand as cheaply as possible. I'd rather have small losses and small wins than big losses and small wins. I'm looking at the long term goals of grinding. Let me explain.

If your set is good, then they've missed the flush/straight. They're not going to pay you off. If they hit, then it's going to cost you. Small win/big loss. I'd rather get out of the hand cheaply to the river incase you hit a boat. Then you hope that they hit the flush.

-wil

definately have to fold most likely due to the flush draw in omaha remember that there are such a variety of hands that can be made in omaha which makes the game so dangerous expect to fold low flushes, straights, and sets.

Lol at people telling him to fold sets. Get as much money in ahead as you can, and if you get beat, recognize you are and get out of the hand. Obviously there ARE situations where it's best to fold, but they are far and few between. You can't be scared.

Even if the hit the straight/flush on the turn, you still have 16 outs to beat therm.

It all depends on the situation, its easy to get rid of a set when there is a flush possibility out there, because odds are you are beat and even with a set, someone could have a higher set than you, remember its 4 cards than 2 and much easier to hit bigger stuff, so sometimes what you think is good, really isnt

A thought process I use while playing omaha is that every hand in omaha is worth one less than it would be in holdem. So if I have two pair in omaha it is as good as a pair so not very strong. A three of a kind is as good as two pair. Now the higher hands you just have to be smart. Straights and flushes will get beat by full house a lot.

Villain A flopped a set, Villain B flopped the Nut FD.

You flopped the nut straight. Villain A is going to happilly bet/raise if he thinks his hand is currently best, and Villain B is going to happily call looking for his flush card.

Last I checked, a straight beats four to a flush, as well as a set. If both of these players are calling/raising your pot-sized bets, and you know you have the best of it, I would consider it a leak in your game to not make the turn more and more expensive at each opportunity.

Once the board pairs or the flush card comes, it's a contest to see how cheaply you can get out of the hand/recalculate your outs.

That's my opinion. If you're made and vulnerable, get it in there. Ultimately your opponent is making the mistake - unless he has something like an open-ended combo draw, in which case you gotta hope he doesn't get made.

Check out www.propokertools.com , which allows you to simulate various situations - like a multiway pot w the nut straight/no redraws vs. a pair and a fd vs. a set - and tells you what your equity is.

And this thinking is a big leak in your game. Str8s are inherently weak in PLO with flush draws or a pair on board. You will have more players willing to pay to the end to get their hand made. Having a made str8 is nothing in this game. Maybe a made str8 and redraws to the nuts is worth playing.

You say get out when your hand gets beat, I say wait your place to have the nut hand. Don't waste your money praying that the str8 holds.

For giggles, I set up the following simulation:

Omaha Hi Simulation
666 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 6s5s9h
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
7c8c2dQd 30.78% 205 0
9s9cQh2c 34.68% 231 0
AsKs5h2h 34.53% 230 0


Surprising, isn't it?

Ok. That makes sense to. I'll check out that tool Sly . . . . thanks guys.

board: 6s5s9h

this is your hand>>>>>7c8c2dQd
9s9cQh2c
AsKs5h2h

facing a big raise, what is the right play?
I guess if you have 3:1 or better then you should call?

We bet and get raised? It's a little situational, but it's generally a fold. Here are two more hands that I didn't simulate that we should be worried about:

7s8hQs2c
7s8hTsJh

The best we can do is chop, we're dogs here - this is called a freeroll, where two hands have the current nuts, but one hand has redraws to a better hand and the other does not.

When you get action on the flop w the current nuts, it's important to have redraws in order to be able to continue.

I'm assuming 100bb effective stacks here - the raise can get us pot committed in a hurry depending on betsizing, whether it's a raised pot, etc.

Good description.


One of the most difficult things for beginners to pick up (especially hold em converts) is that some Nuts are waaay better than other Nuts and that in some situations, the current nuts are a pretty crappy hand.

everyone has their own style of playng. If it was me i go for the all in becuase im a aggressive player .

If you're playing against someone who's very likely holding an overpair and is bad enough to get it in w an overpair, then yeah, that play makes sense. That was the "situational" part of it.

If you're playing against someone competent, you're burning money.

That is why in omaha even with the nuts it is sometimes best to just lay off the gas. In the hand example, you can just see that like half the deck makes our hand very weak. Waiting for a good turn and/or river is never a bad idea since we can still get a lot of money in but with a lot better equity, given that the board does not worsen and if it does, it is easy to get away.

Good points. The pair is more deadly, IMO. Unless I have a piece of it (either trips, or a pair to the single card (i.e. flop 447, and I have a pair of 7s in the hole)). Even if someone simply hit trips, there are 9 outs x2 for their boat. You will likely be drawing dead, even with an OE straight draw PLUS nut flush draw. However, a flopped straight is very strong if it is the nut str8 w/an otherwise dry flop.

The freeroll is one of the most important concepts in Omaha, if not the most, in a game where no hand is impervious to the next card to come, unless you flop quads.

I've seen quads lose twice.... but generally, yes you are right

once to a straight flush, once to higher quads..

LOL! I knew someone would catch and call me on that, and of course you're right. Thought to add that qualifier. But since it doesn't happen often, didn't wanna get too wordy. Besides if my quad 7s get beat by quad Qs, I'd lose my whole stacking knowing I still made the correct move, and would make it again.

He is playing with real money and losing. For his sake, I could only hope your input will not help.

a set is not a great hand in omaha it kills your hand i think because hold em guys love sets they get married ti them in omaha and get killed it is something like falling in love with A-2 people play it like there is always a low hand bet after the flop with no low cards and watch them fold
the math still applies just more outs that kill sets

Play any set besides top set in Omaha with extreme caution. Set over set is much more common in Omaha and if you play your bottom or mid set, end up filling up....there's a decent chance that you may have been drawing dead the entire time - I see people get stacked in situations like that every time I play Omaha.

Think of sets not as made hands but drawing hands (to a boat). Top set is quite powerful on most flops and you should bet/raise/shove with it majority of the time. Middle/Bottom set can be very good, especially against certain opponents (against others you must play them very carefully), but they can also loose you lots of $$$ if you aren't careful with them. Making the 2nd or 3rd nut boat and then stacking off against someone who is really eager to get the money in is burning money usually. I can't stress enough though that you must be careful how you play middle/bottom set and who you play it against. In many situations bottom set is simply a fold.

when I find 2 suited cards on the flop , I usually fold except if Ive double pair or very good hand, then I try to see the next card if doesnt cost much, otherwise I just fold.

Dont be so sure when you have Queens / King + suited to hit the top flush, so many times theres always Ace + suited that beat you.

WHen Ive Q or K + suit , I try to play it without push, if at river none raised then possibly none has Ace and then I do a small bet for optimize the win.

Well,yes and no. The problem is,especially in low stakes, people tend to see way more flops than they should, therefore drawing out on the straight/flush/higher set draws, or they've got a low hand and are playing low. Omaha is a post-flop game, unlike Hold em. So if you have a tight table you can bet out big on the flop and maybe get them to fold a drawing hand. But with 4 cards instead of 2 they have so many more outs that if you get a flush or straight draw on the board and have an aggressive better you have to think you might be beat, or have him draw out on you.