Etiquette?

Hi everyone. So I 'learned' to play poker last month. So far, it's fun. But I have a question. A couple times now I have had some significant chip stacks, but need to leave the game, be it a freeroll, or a $1 game or...

Should I either walk away and let the chips vanish with the blinds, leaving others to wait out the time outs OR
start tossing them out by going in on stupid hands?

I've tried revealing my cards before betting and sometimes it is appreciated, other times players get irritated with me.

What is proper in this online situation?

Thanks!
P.S. I'm playing on FTP if it makes a difference.

Nice to let folks know that you have to leave, then just go. Let the remaining players play for your blinds. By the way, welcome to the forum.

the best advice is not to enter a game which you won't be playing all the way through.
Otherwise just leave as Kenzie has suggested.

thats tre if you dont know the game you dont have to play sometimes taking risks causes lots of loss so better not to go for that

this situation at fulltilt is always a problem for me too, i try to bet all my chips on bad hands so i dont blind out and i always end up gaining a huge chip stack....because fulltilt rewards junk hands more often than not...usually takes about 5 to 7 all ins to go broke

Welcome to CC. Just do what you feel is best, but the advice i can give is that if you know that you are not going to be able to stay in the game all the way through, then don't join. But if you have joined and have started playing, then something comes up to where you have to leave, that i can understand.
See i have done the same thing before and i realized that, some players liked it and others didn't, so i decided not to get in a game if i knew that i was not going to stay in it.

Hi there...my thought on that is to just let everyone know that you have to leave and ask if they prefer you to sit out...or if they would like you to go allin each hand by first announcing your cards. If even one player doesn't like the allins...then be polite and say goodnight....gl all..and sit out.
I dunno...maybe it's just a me thing.

Note: Announcing your cards preflop breaks most cardroom rules. You'll probably be warned first if someone complains, then your chat could be turned off if incidents occur after that. An example of this can be found below from an actual email from Ultimatebet support posted below. lol

It's best just to sit out and let yourself be blinded out.


> Dear xxxx,
>
> We recently received a complaint from a fellow player regarding you
telling your cards before the hand end.
>
> After reviewing the chat log, we agree that the comment made by you
was inappropriate and unacceptable. A copy of the chat log can be
seen below, for your reference.
>
> Chat Logs:
>
> xxxx says "67 off".
> xxxx goes all-in for 3755.
>
> Please refrain from telling your cards before the hand is finished.
Failure to abide by our chat policy will result in the removal of your
chat privileges.
>
> Thank you in advance for adhering to our chat policy, and assisting
us in our efforts to make play a pleasurable experience for all.
>
> Sergio
> Customer Support

I have been in that situation before and was honest about it, apoligized said gl and left.

Lots of great thoughts, I appreciate them. I agree, I don't start anything unless I plan to have a couple of hours... but life can interfere.

I've been trying to use poker as a mental break from a lot of stressful situations, but sometimes they rear their ugly heads mid-game.
I love the strategy of poker, it's like a chess game in some ways.

I'll also admit, I've been a donkey at times when some yahoo irritates me enough. All in on EVERY hand, yeah right. At those times, it's not a release for me, so I'm guilty of chip dumping on some really, really, really stupid hands. I'll try to behave myself more in the future, I promise.

If I have to go ... I just go and turn my comp off.

However and it's happened to me a couple of times, 90% of the time I know I'll be leaving soon and I have time to consider what to do.

At this point I use it as a learning experiance, play aggressive, pick on individuals who are weak to sharpen that skill. Mix up a little super aggresive/maniac with stop TAG and go LAG to see what I can learn from my opponents reactions.

Use it as an opportunity to learn something.

Tis what I do.

I love your response! I couldn't help but laugh out loud! And considering I AM one of those dreaded weak newbies you probably practice on made your post all the more fun. Thanks for sharing MrDaMan!

Laughing my way off to a FREEROLL... again, I promise to try and learn to behave while having fun, as poker is after all, a game. Ouch! Ow! Don't hit me please.

SInce you say you just started a few weeks ago and we have no reason to not believe you, you could be the guy we been looking for.

Let your poker mind be pliable, and take all of our advice, and read all the articles, watch the vids, and play each game or tourney with a particular article or video in mind, or a particular suggestion that you want to try out. The goal here is to internalize little bits of information and experience with each new article/game. Every article here, even the Phil Ivy interview, has some little piece of info that will add up. Pay particular attention to avoiding, from the start, any over eagreness to play a hand. Common wisdom is that you will volentarily fold somewhere around 80% of your hands. Plus or minus.

In fact, for a first assignment I would suggest you get into a play money sng and fold every hand. Not by leaving the table, but by sitting there and actually folding. You must watch the table, and try to guess what any player is playing. In the beginning this will be purely guessing, but over time, one can learn to expect what a player has in general, and sometimes what a specific player will have.

I suggest play money during the first many months of your training. Everything you find here will work at play money tables with the big exception that there are so many bad players at most play money tables that it actually throws off good decission making. It is good decission making that will bring you the most pleasure as well as perhaps a buck or 2.

Ask us specific questions. You may get a large range of answers, or you may see that really the answer to a specific question is the answer given by everyone.
Ask us general questions. These are much easier for us because they have a generic answer, 'It depends.' Bt that's because zeroing in on specific situations from a generalization is so dependant on all the available facts. So learn how to get Hand Histories, and Screen Shots and how to use this site and how to post them.

Depending on your schedule, and willingness, I would suggest that you could be playing pretty good in about 50,000 hands (totally made up guess, which tends to be totally wrong 27% of the time). In the big scheme of things that is not very many hands. But online it goes a lot faster than you might guess.

Most important might be to learn that as serious as this game can get, it is a game, and games should be fun.

As for using poker to relieve stress. That one's got me stumped. I think I would prefer drugs.........

The one time someone at the table was telling everyone his hand I was amazed what cards people would decide to call him with.
The hand I remember was A2o vs K6s. Why wouldn't you wait until you had him crushed instead of picking a hand where you are not very far ahead?

And they won't always believe you (who believes a poker player ) even if you tell them your cards.

If it's a long tourney like a freeroll, I would just say that I've got to go and sit out.

On the other hand, if you're near the end, especially heads up, I've told the other player I've got to leave, I'm going all-in and this is what I have. I used to do this with play money SnGs just 'cause I was getting bored and I figured it was polite, but I've also done it at the end of a VIP tourney where we were both in the money and my wife called and needed a ride.

As someone has said, sometimes life just interferes. There are more important things than poker.

The most proper and fair thing to do would be to let your stack get blinded away.

The problem with just trying to donk off your chips is you are going to give someone a very big, undeserved chip stack.

We have that problem with our live tourneys. It's a shop thing and we have about 20+ people that play regularly (out of a 50 person shop). Every now and then our boss will just show up and play, but he does so for the moral purpose, not the money purpose. He is a good player when sober and serious, but he'll come to drink and just have a good time. He doesn't like to win and "take our money" so when it's time to go, he'll push with any two. We all know when he'll do it cuz his wife will give him that look and he'll say something like "well, it's time to go" and here he goes - PUSH with like a 46o.

So now everyone is scrambling to call w/ an AX or 66. Someone will double or close to triple up by beating a crap hand. Now you have someone in good position and play w/ chip lead.

Better just to let everyone fight over your blinds than unfairly give someone else in the tourney an advantage cuz you had to leave.

I had a nice chipstack in a $5 multi recently. about 80 people left from 200. I was playing well but her indoors made me leave as apparently I promised to do something with her.
So I said, sorry, I have to go.

and walked away.

I finished 11th and made a little cash but only a few more blinds I might have got final table.

Its not fair on the guys I had beat earlier but if I hadn't taken their chips someone else would have.

But it is fair on the guys that are left. They all got some of my blinds and I didn't give someone an easy chip lead.

I once had to leave and was telling the players at the table my cards preflop when they were bad and would fold if they were good. Every time a player went allin to get my stack cause I had like 7-2, I would suck they out. I ended up with 7,000 chips from 1200 and left the table leaving my stack to the blinds. These players I sucked out could not have been to happy. I suggest just leaving your stack to the blinds and not saying anything at all.

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for all the wonderful insight & information. dj11? Why are you looking for some guy? I KNOW I'm not him, as I am female... very much female. <giggle>

I won't 'donk' chips anymore. Yes, I have been very, very patient. On the hand stats I'm only playing 17% on average. I do watch & learn. Of course I hate it when that hand I folded & watched on would have netted me a huge pot.

I am voraciously reading everything I can, which is how I happened upon this forum.

My husband is the reason I'm now hooked. He wanted me to understand enough to grasp the concept of poker. Now I can keep up with him pretty well. He got more than he bargained for!!!

We TiVo all the tourneys and such. Just learned we'll miss the Mirage tournament by a couple days on our next Vegas trip. Might have been fun to be in the audience. BTW, do you have to purchase tickets to watch a game in person?

Oops, that was a specific question.

I have played a few dollars so far, maybe $10-15. There is some official poker ranking website that the stats are on. All I know is mine stink. I'll get there one day.

I will just turn off the computer & walk away... but geez that's a bit hard to do. Just one more hand... just one more. hee-hee.

AlienGenius, I too have had people call with even more dumb hands than I, when I've said what I have.

I guess what FinalTable said is true, people will scramble with nothing. Now, if we could break the tourneys up into 'experienced' vs. 'don't have a clue' types that would be great. I know I've played some dumb hands, but I didn't know better at the time.

I have gotten a good tongue-lashin' or two via the chat box. Funny thing is; it's always from people I've beaten on a hand. I wonder why?

As for the drugs... I'm too cheap a date, so I have to have to relieve stress & have fun other ways.

Thanks Gang!

For those who said, "say goodbye and get blinded off" was more ethical/fair than telling your cards and giving the table a shot at them, I have to disagree.

At least w telling your cards you are basically giving whoever has the best hand that deal the shot at your chips, and thus it is random (randomly determined by the shuffle).

If you just tell everyone you are no longer at the table, you are basically screwing the guy in the sb when you are in the bb. The button and/or co now have license to steal your bb and the sb's money, knowing that the sb has to call more money than the bb would when raised from late position.

This is exactly the situation that happened to Gavin Smith live (!) in the WSOP last year. Read about how he got screwed by an administrative error here.

I stand by what I said. I think it's just unfair to give someone a huge chip advantage going into a hand where your purpose is just to lose your chips.

I know I'd be upset if I thought I was a solid player but on the hand that someone says "I'm leaving and going all-in w/ 510o" - I look down and see that I have 72o. I can't call because I'm an underdog and if I lose, then I'm out. So some donk may go all in because they have A5 and win a ton of chips.

It's not randomly determined by shuffle because the first player normally wouldn't go all-in with crap and another player wouldn't call an all-in with a marginal hand. Even if the calling player has AA, the chips wouldn't be in play against 72o normally speaking. To me, that's an unfair advantage.

Yes, if everyone folds all the way around to the small blind when the absent person is in the BB, they will win the blinds w/ no contest. But someone wins the blinds vs no contest or someone doubles up vs no contest. I'd much rather see the former. And normally, the entire table isn't going to fold every time the absentee is in the BB. In your scenerio, isn't that always an option for the button or CO? They can raise and attempt to steal blinds whenever they feel like it. I don't that puts any unfair scenerio on the SB. It's still up to the SB to check his cards and determine if a call/raise is the appropriate response.

I just read your example. Yes, it sucked for Gavin Smith, but it didn't suck because the guy next to him was empty - it sucked because they caused that situation by mistake. That would have upset me too.

But notice that Gavin did not get upset until after it was determined that it happened by mistake. If it was not a mistake, than proper etiquette was followed. If Gavin was asked - would he rather have the 101,000 chips given to someone w/ a marginal hand (say Daniel) who knew that the opposing was crap...and knows this because he was told. OR - would he rather just have to defend his blinds once a round. What would he probably think?

Telling everyone at the table what you have is not ethical by any stretch of the imagination regardless of what anyone wants to believe they are achieving by doing so. You're violating rules you've agreed to when you opened your account.

The real world answer is that if you walk away from your chips in the middle of an event, you are blinded off until they are gone. Try sitting in a live tournament and telling everyone exactly what you have in your hand and see how fast it takes to incur a penalty. Oh, and while you're sitting on your timeout, guess what's happening. That's right, they are blinding you off just like they would have if you just walked away and didn't violate the rules.

I'm not saying either one is ethical. Just that you should consider that you are screwing one person more than the others by leaving.

No one is getting screwed, it is a matter of adjusting your play to the situation. In this case the situation is that there is a BB or SB worth of dead money available in each orbit. Make adjustment as appropriate because dead money affects odds.

Well, then it is time to make a choice I suppose. The original question was...
So, if you have to leave, you only have two choices. 1. Sit out and fold every hand while blinded off. 2. Start telling everyone what you have each hand and pushing all in trying to dump all your chips. So which would be the proper thing to do? (Hint: the answer is the one that doesn't violate the site's TOS, the tournament rules, and general rules of poker).

Look at it this way...what if I didn't have to leave but never looked at my cards, folded every hand, and was blinded off that way? Would that be allowed within the tournament rules? Would I be allowed to play that way? Yes to both questions. Which is no different that not being there.

You can't be serious saying "No one is getting screwed".
I understand your points, but you really don't see how your sb is at a disadvantage here?

Poker is a game of adjustments, this is one of those adjustments. It's a matter of recognizing the situation you're in and modifying your starting hand requirements to adjust for it. And this need not be for every player, the only ones we're really worried about here are the CO and button making more aggressive steal plays (and that is only when it is folded around to them). But knowing this also helps to loosen up our requirements to compensate. But the reality is, they aren't going to simply raise with just anything every single time just because of the empty BB. If they do, then you've picked up more info and can play back at them more aggressively. Add to that the fact that many players out there wouldn't recognize the possible opportunity for extra steals and I don't worry too much about it.

So yes, I am serious when I say no one is getting screwed. Maybe I need to qualify that a bit more and say no one is getting screwed in that SB if they know/understand how to compensate for the situation. But even when they don't know or can't understand, I don't agree they are getting screwed...they have a leak in their game that others can capitalize on.

The ideal answer of course is not to leave.

But that was not part of the question.

It's very rude to leave a cash game with more chips than you started with. Other players will tell you off for running away with their moneys. Sitting out doesn't work; you should declare "I'm steaming now" and proceed to bluff off any winnings you might have accumulated so far. The winner is the person who can stay longest at the table basically.

etiquette your bitching.

I make a point to leave w/ more chips than I bought in for. I especially love when I pick up pckt As within the first few hands at a talbe and someone pushes into me. I win and then leave.

i have had to leave a few times and twice by sitting out i actually finished in the money

The empty Chair dilemna.

I'm sitting here thinking that I have exploited that position much more than I have been victemized by the empty chair being to my left.

When one, or sometimes more empty chairs are directly to my left, and I have become aware of that, it gives me the button by default x more times per orbit than the other positions.

It used to happen most of the time at Party, can we not all remember sitting alone at a table for the entire first hour?????

That being the extreme example, it still happens in many tourneys where several folks forgot they signed up, or got busy.

Pokerstars has a clearly visible banner below any player 'sitting out', of the top of this early morning, I cant remember any other site. Perhaps it should become the norm. Then, when shuffling tables a small tweak could be made that would favor moving a player who is 'sitting out' first.

Part at one time looked like they would make an attempt to move sitting out players to the same group of tables.

If I get a ghost to my left, it is not a disadvantage that the CO, or Button can squeeze me once or twice an orbit, it is an advantage cause I get to be the CO or Button 3 or more times per orbit.

As for the 'guy' thing.
Clearly you started off on a more correct path than many of us did. I am still unlearning many of the bad poker habits I picked up before computers where invented.
The idea of a 'virgin' mind to mold into a poker player will perk most of the folks here into a mentor/mentoree frame of mind, and if the mentoree was known as such by the 'folks' it would be such a unique experience as to be enjoyable to most of us, and possibly profitable to the recipient of a groups collective knowledge and wisdom.
Was just a stray random thought that I probably overexpressed.

This is an excellent point.