Email from the PPA

#1 7th June 2011, 6:25 AM

Quote:

No issue is more immediate to PPA members and leadership than the return of player funds. The PPA believes, as it has since Black Friday, that while the government has targeted the online poker sites, it is the players who have been the victims.

Thankfully, one affected online poker site has been able to fulfill its obligations. We commend PokerStars for repaying its U.S. players in an efficient and timely manner. It was reported earlier this month that they have returned more than $100 million in players’ accounts. PokerStars continues to be the most popular site for players around the world, no doubt in no small measure due to their fiscal and customer policies.

Unfortunately, the other sites targeted on Black Friday -- Full Tilt Poker, Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker -- have been unable to do the same and their U.S. customers are understandably angry.

Recently (5/30/11), Full Tilt Poker provided an update to players about status of player funds. Regrettably, no specific timeline was provided on return of funds. Full Tilt Poker continues to maintain, as they have to the PPA directly in the past, their intention to refund players in full. As far as we are aware, there have been no recent updates provided by Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker. Each passing day without communication -- or refunds -- increases harm to the players.

Currently there exists no legal or civil authority by which the PPA could force or require that players be paid immediately. The PPA does, however, have an obligation to represent our membership of over 1.2 million U.S. poker players and we again publicly call on Full Tilt Poker, Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet to fulfill their promises to allow U.S. players to cash out their account balances and to do so sooner rather than later, despite what difficulties may exist. Players relied on assurances by these sites that their money would be safe and these sites must honor their commitments to the players. The immediate return of U.S. player funds must be the top priority of all the parties involved.

We will continue to press these poker sites for concrete responses which we can pass on to our members in the very near future.

They are working on it so i am taking it as good news

#2 7th June 2011, 7:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidkvno1

They are working on it so i am taking it as good news

They should work on DOJ instead. They should ask the DOJ to unfrozen the funds which belong to US/other country players. The DOJ stands for department of justice. It is injustice thing to do to take away players money.
Actually it is injustice to take away anybody's money until court order to. presumed innocent until proven guilty not the other way round.

#3 8th June 2011, 6:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

They should work on DOJ instead. They should ask the DOJ to unfrozen the funds which belong to US/other country players. The DOJ stands for department of justice. It is injustice thing to do to take away players money.
Actually it is injustice to take away anybody's money until court order to. presumed innocent until proven guilty not the other way round.

I would the think the PPA is working with the DOJ...
My state reps are not to happy, on what the DOJ did.

#4 8th June 2011, 9:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

Actually it is injustice to take away anybody's money until court order to. presumed innocent until proven guilty not the other way round.

The court did give them an order. And PLEASE tell me you can see the flaw in waiting until after a trial to freeze an account...

#5 8th June 2011, 9:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzExorcist

The court did give them an order. And PLEASE tell me you can see the flaw in waiting until after a trial to freeze an account...

Where is the court order? Do you have a copy?

#6 8th June 2011, 12:06 PM

Also the harm occurring to the remaining poker sites. Tell me who is foolish enough to deposit monies on any site these days? It is a matter of trust, you see what will happen to your funds that you deposit. If you don't lose your bankroll, it will at the least get confiscated. Oh, no. No more deposits from muah.

#7 8th June 2011, 12:39 PM

i agree eb.no no how will i deposit.sad but true its just a matter of time.grrrrr

#8 8th June 2011, 5:12 PM

I feel for all the US guys who have had funds frozen on FT and other sites since Black Friday. It would be interesting to know just how much these sites are making in interest from the frozen funds which are still in their accounts. Maybe they should consider sharing that interst out when they eventually get around to paying out.

#9 9th June 2011, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

Where is the court order? Do you have a copy?

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pres...dictmentpr.pdf

Here's the relevant paragraph, from the bottom of the third page:

"The Indictment and Civil Complaint seek at least $3 billion in civil money laundering penalties and forfeiture from the Poker Companies and the defendants. The District Court issued an order restraining approximately 76 bank accounts in 14 countries containing the proceeds of the charged offenses. Pursuant to a warrant for arrest in rem issued by the U.S. District Court, the United States also seized five Internet domain names used by the Poker Companies to operate their illegal online businesses in the United States."

#10 9th June 2011, 5:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzExorcist

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pres...dictmentpr.pdf

Here's the relevant paragraph, from the bottom of the third page:

"The Indictment and Civil Complaint seek at least $3 billion in civil money laundering penalties and forfeiture from the Poker Companies and the defendants. The District Court issued an order restraining approximately 76 bank accounts in 14 countries containing the proceeds of the charged offenses. Pursuant to a warrant for arrest in rem issued by the U.S. District Court, the United States also seized five Internet domain names used by the Poker Companies to operate their illegal online businesses in the United States."

That's the indictment, not the court order. We need to see the original court order so we can tell that based on what the court orders to restrain those bank accounts and for how long.

#11 9th June 2011, 5:48 AM

Actually that was the press release about the indictment but let's not split hairs. It still shows that there was a court order to seize the accounts.

The specifics of exactly what the grounds were and exactly how long the accounts will be frozen for are largely irrelevant because whatever they are they'll boil down to "illegal internet gambling stuff" and "they're not getting unfrozen any time soon". What's your point exactly?

#12 9th June 2011, 6:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzExorcist

Actually that was the press release about the indictment but let's not split hairs. It still shows that there was a court order to seize the accounts.

The specifics of exactly what the grounds were and exactly how long the accounts will be frozen for are largely irrelevant because whatever they are they'll boil down to "illegal internet gambling stuff" and "they're not getting unfrozen any time soon". What's your point exactly?

You can makeup a story to file an restraining order against your ex(boyfreind/girlfreind/husband/wife). Since it's based only on your story, this restraining order will be temporary, a few weeks, and can be challenged to be removed.

An restraining order that based on the result of a trial ie. a judgment is a real restraining order and can last forever.

#13 9th June 2011, 6:42 AM

...so you're saying you seriously believe the DOJ would go to all this trouble, make all this fuss and noise, only to freeze funds on a court order that would expire in a matter of weeks or that could easily be challenged and revoked?

#14 9th June 2011, 7:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzExorcist

...so you're saying you seriously believe the DOJ would go to all this trouble, make all this fuss and noise, only to freeze funds on a court order that would expire in a matter of weeks or that could easily be challenged and revoked?

The burden of proof to file and obtain a restraining order is very low. So far all the defendants of online poker plead guilty. This will encourage the DOJ to file more indictments against online poker.
That's why we need to see the original court order to see what's really going on behind doors and not keep guessing.

#15 9th June 2011, 1:59 PM

*shrugs*

All I'm saying is this is the DOJ, not some boyfriend/girlfriend spat. It's serious and if PokerStars lawyers haven't come up with grounds to revoke the seizures I doubt any of us will.

#16 9th June 2011, 6:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzExorcist

*shrugs*

All I'm saying is this is the DOJ, not some boyfriend/girlfriend spat. It's serious and if PokerStars lawyers haven't come up with grounds to revoke the seizures I doubt any of us will.

Company lawyers are not usually good trial lawyers. You need good trial lawyers to win court cases.
PokerStars and FullTilt poker must have consulted lawyers after UIGEA, That's why they continue to operate in US after UIGEA.
Since the DOJ is seeking $3B, with just a very small fraction of that the sites can hire the very best lawyers in the world to win the cases.

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