Downswing or am I doing someting wrong??

#1 6th January 2010, 4:31 PM

Hi,

The two picture below are my PT3 stats for two periods. First up to Dec 09 and secondly from Dec 09 to now. As you can see the results are very different but the stats (as far as I can see) are much the same. Is this just a downswing or am I doing something wrong? Was I jus luck pre December and it's catching up with me? I'd be grateful of any pointers! Thanks guys.

PS this is for 2NL full ring cash games

#2 6th January 2010, 4:39 PM

Small sample size makes it impossible to tell but for FR I'd say you're playing too loose and not raising enough preflop. Eliminate a lot of the junk you're limping with or that you're playing from EP. Preflop stats more like 14/12 would be closer to optimal.

#3 6th January 2010, 4:54 PM

I agree with WVH.

tiny sample sizes so monetary results are irrelevant.

It's probably possible to beat 2nl playing 19/10, but you should tighten up and reduce the vpip/pfr gap. Stop limping. For more, we'd need to see actual hands instead of stats.

#4 6th January 2010, 4:55 PM

I'd be interested to see your profits by position-- I know that I'm profitable in each position except the blinds, where it's not even close... So maybe you're like me and need to cut down on completing from the SB or getting over-involved from BB.

Otherwise, we're looking at ~3700 hands, a lot of this can just be variance. Just follow WV's advice and your game will most likely improve.

#5 6th January 2010, 5:59 PM

Thanks guys - yep I'm currently playing at 19/9 so agree this an area that i need to tighten up on.

As for positions I'm currently making money in all positions except BB, SB and UTG.

I play 24/12 on the button and more worryingly 15/4 UTG and 35/15 in the SB...seroius leaks?

#6 6th January 2010, 6:13 PM

UTG should be something more like 9/9 or 10/10 imo. Just cut out all open limping.

Tighten up in the SB. It's the worst position on the table. Why pay for something you shouldn't want for free?

#7 7th January 2010, 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

UTG should be something more like 9/9 or 10/10 imo. Just cut out all open limping.

Tighten up in the SB. It's the worst position on the table. Why pay for something you shouldn't want for free?

Thanks for your input WVH - it's been most useful

#8 7th January 2010, 4:01 PM

Try and get your stats more like 19/17, 15/13, 18/15 etc
There shouldn't be a big gap between your Vpip and PFR. Stop open limping and heck even make limping behind a rare occurrence.

#9 7th January 2010, 4:41 PM

No open limping from UTG. No-no open limping period. Your w$sd is very low. Taking to many hands to far.

#10 7th January 2010, 5:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

Tighten up in the SB. It's the worst position on the table. Why pay for something you shouldn't want for free?

^^^^^^ This is word.

Also, it looks like you're calling more turn/river raises. I'm curious if those particular hands don't represent the majority of your down swing...

#11 8th January 2010, 6:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-A

^^^^^^ This is word.

Also, it looks like you're calling more turn/river raises. I'm curious if those particular hands don't represent the majority of your down swing...

Thanks Double A...where do I see this stat on the summary page. Apologies, I'm new to analysing PT3 in great detail.

Thanks too to all the other comments..yes, open limping is a curse I need to shift..

#12 8th January 2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerman27

Thanks Double A...where do I see this stat on the summary page. Apologies, I'm new to analysing PT3 in great detail.

No worries. Look for "folded to a turn raise" in the upper right.

I should have said, that it looks like you are folding to turn/river raises less.

Small sample but, it could be that your are continuing to showdown too often in the face of resistance on the turn/river. That could be why your "won money @ showdown %" looks low.

Again, I wouldn't be surprised if your downswing wasn't from a few key hands where you called down big turn/river bets.

#13 8th January 2010, 1:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-A

No worries. Look for "folded to a turn raise" in the upper right.

I should have said, that it looks like you are folding to turn/river raises less.

Small sample but, it could be that your are continuing to showdown too often in the face of resistance on the turn/river. That could be why your "won money @ showdown %" looks low.

Again, I wouldn't be surprised if your downswing wasn't from a few key hands where you called down big turn/river bets.

Okay great thanks...so I should consider folding more often in the face of a turn/river raise. Think this could be a new leak I need to plug.

#14 8th January 2010, 3:16 PM

if your on a table with a lot of limping and multi way pots though limping in early position with small pairs is not a mistake if you can score big when you hit sets.

On a tight aggressive table where someone will raise and isolate you then force you to play out of position I wouldn't recommend limping UTG with small pairs but on a loose passive table against people who will over play top pair this can be very profitable.

assess the table situations.

#15 8th January 2010, 3:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeSilver

if your on a table with a lot of limping and multi way pots though limping in early position with small pairs is not a mistake if you can score big when you hit sets.

On a tight aggressive table where someone will raise and isolate you then force you to play out of position I wouldn't recommend limping UTG with small pairs but on a loose passive table against people who will over play top pair this can be very profitable.

assess the table situations.

I agree it can be profitable but I believe it's more profitable to raise them or fold them from EP. I personally fold 22-77 from UTG/UTG+1 and open raise all other pps. From MP1 on I open all pps. Not saying you can't do something else and make money but for me 22-77 were losers over a fairly large sample from EP.

#16 8th January 2010, 6:54 PM

I play 6-max so you have to adjust it but 6-max UTG I straight fold pp's less than 77. That's MP1 FR I think. I'd probs do the same MP1 (6-max) then drop it to 55/66 MP2. Then i'd open them all in CO/Button.

Just an example of how tight you should be with them really though mine might be a little too tight. (Not the UTG that is just a rule 77+)

On the other hand if a tight UTG raises then i'm calling with all of my pp's from pretty much any positon. I hate it in the SB but I still would.

Playing pp's is fairly simple, though they MUST be played right or it's a big money loser.

#17 8th January 2010, 8:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerman27

Okay great thanks...so I should consider folding more often in the face of a turn/river raise. Think this could be a new leak I need to plug.

I don't know but it might be worth looking into.

I wouldn't want to say "fold more". I'd say, "raise OR fold more".

Most of my "down swings", that were big enough to look into, were really just one or two bad sessions with one or two REALLY bad hands. Most of those bad hands had glaring mistakes in them. Like calling huge turn/river raises with mediocre holdings...

#18 9th January 2010, 4:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyChippy

I play 6-max so you have to adjust it but 6-max UTG I straight fold pp's less than 77.

ewww

#19 9th January 2010, 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyChippy

I play 6-max so you have to adjust it but 6-max UTG I straight fold pp's less than 77.

#20 9th January 2010, 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sindri_93

You saying that's too tight?

#21 9th January 2010, 9:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerman27

You saying that's too tight?

That photo is so cool.
I'm gunna use it in the hand analysis section rather than give advise

and ye at 6max u shud always be opening your pocketpairs regardless of position.

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