Donkey's make me so mad

why hate the donks? we are cards players, those who go all-in are "gamblers". I personally love donkeys, it's how I get most of my chips. and yes its frustrating to see some schmuck get lucky. what would a a pro boxer do in a slap fight? he would be patient let the donkey slap and not throw anything, then.....bam! one punch! like I love it when some donkey calls me with A7 off and I have big slick. Its like bringing a knife to a gun fight. I feel it best nowadays to just sit back for 10 minutes when they are at my table and let natural selection take its coarse. dont worry they never last too long, and if you can catch them you double up in the first few minutes.

I love these - They double my stack with no problem - Remember the odds are on YOUR side - In the end you will win their money - And that is what counts - The long run

I see what you are saying green, but even when you lose to junk like that, you ARE improving each time you play, as long as you don't stoop to their level. At least it's just a freeroll right?

4 7 off suite (sic)? Not 2 7?

Next time type it as losing to 2 7 off suit - the best hand preflop losing to the worst. Sounds better like that.


Are you able to post the Hand History?

No?

keep waiting till you get some high pair like quens or kings and than just call the donkey and they will be crying at ther screen becuse they where so stupid to gamble oh well thats how i play it mostly

Well, freerolls are a good way to improve your game, but one of the main problems with freerolls are that they are free, and those crazy people who go all-in with 4-7 offsuit have absolutely nothing to lose. Although the odds of you losing with a hand like pocket aces in a freeroll are rather small, bad beats happen, and it is something that I have just learned to deal with after playing throughout multiple freerolls.

I have been told many times that Poker is not playing your hands but playing the other players hands. However, in cases of donkeys, its too frustrating playing them as they are playing counting on luck only(!). When I see one of these, I just wait a few hands (unless I get a monster hand) and they will be off the table - Donkeys do not last more than a few hands - Odds are against luck, you MUST have some skills as well

I know what you're saying. It is frustrating when you have the better starting hand and someone goes all in with crap just because it's a freeroll, and doubles up. What esle is one to do, fold AA? That's hard to do.

i agree with hating donkeys but i have to say that sometimes the best and doesnt win and thats just the way poker is. however it is alot more frustrating when that bad hand is played after you raise

all that being said donks do bother me too!

Yes, nothing more frustrated than playing with donks but.......if you're patient, very patient, chips will be comin' your way!

Haha, I love donkeys a lot too but getting their chips becomes almost of the utmost importance. Some donkey will be going all in everytime and no one calling and I feel the need to call and win his or her chips before someone else does, lol. But it does annoy me that when I have A A and the donk has K 4, the flop comes down K 4 4.

The problem is, and this is the OPs original point, that in a tournie, you build up a stack, you get a superb hand, and then it gets derailed by someone playing utter garbage, and then its too late. Your chips stack is demoralised, you are demoralised and it goes down hill from there.

How often do you get beaten by a donk and then get revenge on him by taking them all back. Very very rarely.

In MTTs once your chips have gone then they are gone and theres little chance of you getting them back. You then have to resort to the kinds of tactics they employ to try getting your stack back up to a manageable level.

Ring games is fine. You reload and then sit tight and wait till they do it again and you clobber them. You cant do that in a tournament, and theres nothing more frustrating than being beaten by a donk and someone says to you "well in the long run you will be the winner". In the long run, you've lost those chips in that tournie and you are stuffed. Who cares if in two years time you have a bigger bankroll than him. Its that tournie that counts at the time and that tournie has just been buggered up by some idiot who cant even spell poker let alone play it..

Which is little comfort as you won't either.

The premise that only good players playing prime hands are only in ring games or high buyin tournaments is simply not true. The idea that players who play freerolls or MTT's are donks is also untrue. The idea that a player with Aces can't see that someone else may play a hand that beats him or expects someone to automatically fold at a 4bet or put them on a hand that gives them a better chance than the person who knows the hidden hand thinks says much about the player making that claim.

Despite all of the excuses, if you're a better player you'll win - that still won't make you immune to "bad beats", players own inexperience causing them to make a bad play against you, people interpreting your play incorrectly and making a bad play against you. When you digest all of the professionally developed information about playing well (I certainly have not) what I find is THAT IS EXACTLY THE SITUATION YOU ARE TRYING TO CREATE against your opposition both novice and expert. My interpretation of players (with much higher experience explaining how he beat them) against Jerry Wang in the WSOP last year is that it was their incorrect assessment of his betting pattern (among other things) that led to his win.

I guess I just don't understand all of this complaining about "donks" I hope all of my opposition is playing at less than "Phil Ivey/Daniel Negreanu A game" level.

I have never seen a known, winning player say or write anything different. The idea that "I hate donks", "I can't win against luckboxes","people always draw with nothing and beat my Aces","how could they play ## against my ##" is born in small limit games by players whose game needs development in many areas.

Daniel Negreanu (and a lot of other good players) said "If you can't beat players taking nothing but long shots, you can't beat anyone." Most books by high caliber players speak of playing in a manner to confuse the opposition and picking games that includes just the players who are susceptible to good play - the ones people who complain about donks are talking about. I have never heard one of them complain that their opponents aren't playing well enough to suit their idea of what excellent play is. Has anyone else? Most often it's players who just can't ever seem to win because of that lone opponent who always just by being lucky gets that 2% shot against their "near nuts" hand. Hmmm, who is that guy anyway who always wins on a long shot - isn't that statistically unlikely to happen?

A beginners opinion
Merlin333

LoL.

You seriously think your game will improve by playing freerolls? You do realize that these players push with 7 4 offsuit because there is zero entry fee?

You will still get these players in real money games, but still, why, why would you NOT want a player going all in with 7 4 os against your AA?

[Quote:
Originally Posted by Green446]
I am sure everyone has a preference of playing tournaments or ring games. I personal like playing tournaments over ring games. I use freerolls to try and improve myself, I play the top rank hands only except in small blind and big blind if the blinds are small and of no one have raised. I got so upset at players when for example: I got pocket A’s in under the gun position, so I raise 4 times the big blind a player in middle position re-raise me with and all in bet so I call. He turns up 7 4 off suite and on flop he gets two pair. How can some risk there tournament with 4 7 off suite?



I think that is better i play money to improve my learning.

When I'm playing freeroll i prefer waiting +/- 10 hands to start the game, because the "lotto man" already out the game......

Here is another way to look at the same thing some folks are saying here... oh and I totally get your frustration.

If a bad player couldn't have the temporary joy of winning a big pot now and then by making a play he doesn't understand is terrible... then it would be much harder for better players to make money at all.

cAPS

happens all the time. just remember that as the odds play out u will win the majority of the time. i lost kk ns 107 yesterday i make 4x raise he shoves for 6k more.i almost folded thinking he gad aces then he flips over that hand i was excited till the flop came 1077. then earlier i had qq and lost to 88 on the river. but thats poker. deal with the bad beats and play on.

Ha! This is such an obviously good idea.

I have lost the last two freerolls I've tried on the OPENING hand with AA and JJ respectively. I don't think I could ever fold the AA, but the JJ was a terrible mistake then.

I totally understand how you feel and I'm sure alot of other players can as well. However, it's a freeroll and unfortunately many people like the game like this. I mean obviously, in a real money game, this would not be the case and nobody would make this move. In a freeroll though, most people just shove it all in with any two cards hoping to hit miracles. Those players will only win the short term though. If you keep playing good and the way your suppose to, you should be fairly successful in the long run. The long run is what counts too because you will be winning poker player who makes money. Sorry about the luck and keep playing solid. GL at the tables...Mikey

OMG wouldn't you know it .... a similar thing just happened to me.... I called his all in.... he flips over 6-4 and I had AK suited... and of course he hits a pair and I get pooped on.... ya gotta love these freerolls

"The problem is, and this is the OPs original point, that in a tournie, you build up a stack, you get a superb hand, and then it gets derailed by someone playing utter garbage, and then its too late. Your chips stack is demoralised, you are demoralised and it goes down hill from there."

fcumred said it perfectly. It is the main reason why any player hates donks. Even waiting for a good hand to try and destroy the donk has a small chance of losing with them donking you out again. However the other 95% of the time, we tend to win the hand and help put or put the donk out of his and your own misery.

I love the freerolls, the donks go in you take the chips and he goes to bed. Then you continue on your merry way through the tourny. The donks I hate are the ones that go all in hand after hand and tell you they want out. If you want out then just leave and let the blinds go to someone who cares
Cheers, see you at a table some where

Above.

The reason ppl get so pissed of by donk moves, is because it's a tourny and yer out after playing solid poker for 3 hrs. Play a ring game for 3 hrs and you'll get donked a dozen times but it doesn't matter, there's always the next hand, not the case in a tourney. Not a single table sng, or mtt or live tournament for that matter, was EVER won by at least 1 suckout. Doyle Brunson won 2 WSOP main events pushing or calling an all in with 10 2 os, is he a donkey? I've been as low as 290 chips early in a tourney and 555 after 2nd break, made the final table in both cases, patience patience patience cannot be stressed enough. No matter how many times you've been sucked out on, if you play position and pick ur spots, you can chip up, especially around bubble time. As said in the previous post, tournies are a long term game that require a complete understandng of bankroll management.

omg what

i have lost to donks many times b4 and im sure im still going to lose to donks in the future to come, but overall i do beat them from being PATIENT and WAITING for the right cards to come to me and i usually quickly double or even triple ..it can be frustrating to lose to a donk with 74 against your AK but it happens and any hand CAN win!! the key is patience

"You then have to resort to the kinds of tactics they employ to try getting your stack back up to a manageable level.
...Keep believing this and see how well you really do. You do not have to dumb down you game for any reason. You might have to change your strategy in order to survive, ie: play more aggressive and steal in position more but thats not playing at their level. If you're resorting to how they play just so you can 'get revenge' and/or 'feel justified' because of the bad beat...well thats pretty stupid, too"

i think that philthy sums most of it up right here. this is the thing i hear about most often. going alone with the "if u cant beat em, join em."

theres plenty of donks out there. but also look at who ships all their money....

better luck next time.

Or your finished in the first few hands. That's why i hate donks, and play most of the time, $10 or more tournements. In the tournements, with higher buy-ins, you'll almost never see donks.

Not to be rude or anything. but FALSE.

i don't know, i love the donks. i love playing at the soft tables that have them, too. and yeah of course every once in a while they'll steal one from ya but if you play enough hands you'll know that you can easily overcome the odds that they'll win.
and after all... who here hasn't hit runner runner on a hand that was going nowhere? :P

I love donkies so much that I find myself being one every once in awhile. No, seriously, if you identify one and make a calculated risk, you have to know you can lose. I mean, that's always the case, isn't it?

I often find myself losing with good cards to someone who shouldn't have been in the hand in the first place, but there's a difference between someone playing stupid all the time, and someone just having a feeling on a hand, or just liking a particular bad hand (for what reason is always unknown). I myself get too frustrated with donks, and turn into one myself. I get the "if they can do it, I can do it" mentality, and that never works for me!!!!

I also think that a LOT of people call other people donks just because they are upset about losing, because they thought their hand was better....even though the "donk" hand was pretty decent as well

I still don't get where is the heck the word donk came from?? But people play how they play whether its their strategy or just playing dumb, honestly let them play how they want to play.