DOJ adds Lederer/Ferguson/Furst to Complaint - Claims defrauded poker players

They aren't just after Bitar and some people we've never heard about now. If the DOJ wins this Howard and Jesus will be personally liable for your money.


Its Subject poker's headline story. Its also in the Wall Street Journal.


Mods I didn't put this in BF thread because its pretty new/big.

http://www.subjectpoker.com/

Ya I was about to post Similar story then I ran across yours so good thing I didn't...

Hope they all see a jail cell

i wonder how safe they all feel on a day-to-day basis


like i wonder if lederer would feel safe walking down the strip alone or if he'd be in constant fear that some .5/1 grinder will bash his face in for stealing his $5k

LOL, Damn that would be funny to hear on the News

Note to jaymfc....

lose the hat......

Shave the beard, work on a swedish accent......

And Forbes, and it is in the BF thread.

Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanva...-ponzi-scheme/

Wonder if they are doing this to deflect US players anger at them. The forbes article seems a bit weak. Not to defend FTP, but the DOJ did keep seizing the deposits players were trying to make. The DOJ has at least $115 million of our $ which would go a long way toward repaying the players.

Really just disgusting to read this. I agree that they should see jail time.

Buying your FTP monies for 0c/$, PM me.

It is very disappointing. I stuck with FTP for years even as a Washington State player at "great risk" to myself. I believed in the people who ran the company and the business model and acumen they claimed to possess. I don't really idolize poker players, but some of them significantly misrepresented the worth of the site they convinced many poker players to play and deposit money and let hold our money even in times of declining economies. For a few months now, my expectations were to be out the money I had on FTP, but now I'm at a loss for how I stand with poker in general, and how much I can trust anyone involved with the game.

I don't know what to say. If they are why we can't get our money, i hope they go to jail for this. This is just wrong of them.

Just read about this in an email from EGR magazine, jail time seems fitting. Paying themselves from player funds is theft, the Alderney Gaming Commission should be liable also for allowing a company to operate this way.

My opinion is very simple, disgusted dakota-xx. Its disheartening to think that the money that I've personally put on that site was intentionally stolen. Not just mine but others all over the world. These folks stole money, and possibly used it in other poker tourneys to further there fortunes. I mean it sounds far fetched, but they actually stole this money if they knew they were using players funds that were taken from the site it was intended to fund. Its also a little frustrating because alot of American players defend online poker to people everyday, who think that its all a scam. Gonna be pretty hard not to look like a idiot now when trying to explain Cereus and now FT.

Full Tilt owes me a lot of money. That being said, this justice department continues to astound me. The anti-online poker stance of the Gov. would be greatly enhanced by the publicity of the suit. If the boys were duped into taking the inflated salaries without knowledge of the fraud they might squeeze out of this. I hope no one misses a very important point. Does the US have jurisdiction over a foreign company operating on the internet? This may be a case of our justice department trying to enforce foreign laws against US citizens. If you are familiar with the Gibson guitar seizure. The DOJ raided their Nashville operation and seized wood which is considered to be in short supply in Asia. There was no US law or ruling showing a violation. They just did it on their own. Get used to it Americans. Administrative agencies will be making the laws and Courts and the legislative bodies will not.

The complaint also maintains that the aforementioned board members are liable to the government "in an amount that is no less than $40,954,781.53 for Bitar; $41,856,010.92 million for Lederer; $25 million for Ferguson; and $11,706,323.96 million for Furst."
This will effectively end these players careers. Anytime they step outside there should be a defrauded FTP player ready with a shiv.

It’s a shame that Full Tilt would violate player trust, and act against their own long-term best interests, by treating player accounts as personal checking accounts. Legalization and transparency will now be more vital than ever for the future of online poker.

Yeah just horrible .. seems like I made a fairly lengthy thread about the potential of all of this a few months back and it was deleted ....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

Horrible reporting - bye bye online poker.

So sick of these guys reporting on something they know nothing about.

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000046702

Err, they ran the company. They are named specifically by the DoJ, so the DoJ evidently has something linking them to the situation at hand - there are other shareholders who haven't been mentioned, after all. There is no way they can possibly plead ignorance (well they could try, but it wouldn't work). Despite all the hate (some justified, some not) being thrown at the DoJ for their oppressive stance towards online poker, without their interference in this case Lederer, Bitar et al could have got away with the alleged crimes indefinitely, and that is really scary.

Anyway, there is no chance that FT survives this. The damage has been done regardless of whether criminal proceedings are initiated and regardless of the results of any civil/criminal proceedings. This isn't another UB-style situation where the masses were ignorant to the scam, this will go mainstream (if it hasn't already).

Looking optimistically at the situation for a moment, this whole situation appears to me like a giant neon sign advertising regulation of online poker in the US. Hopefully the government will see it the same way.

As is should be. What was he thinking? Calling hisself Jesus.

Lets see.... Pay the players, or collect penalties. Hmmmmmm.


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Not here - no thread of yours has been deleted in this forum since 2008.

Exactly. As far as the DOJ is concerned, all american on-line players were engaging in an illegal activity. Don't expect them to shed any tears for us. The DOJ claims that Poker Stars and Full Tilt combined are liable for up to 3 Billion Dollars in fines. That $115k is just a little drop in a very big bucket.

I'm stunned. What an obscene amount of money. The ramifications of this latest development have my mind reeling. My immediate reaction was one of disbelief about Chris Ferguson. I mean, this is a guy whose world exists on a theoretical plane that few of us can fathom--he even had to be taught how to show emotion when he won a televised tournament. As such, I have a hard time imagining him being involved in such a greed-based scheme. My next thought was one of utter deflation about the disastrous impact this allegation will surely have, regardless of whether it is true or not.

Exactly. That's why I don't understand the reaction of yeah DOJ at other forums and I worry about the negative impact of stupid newscasters turning sentiment against online poker.

Check the British take on the news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14997069

Yeah, the US is now calling FTP a "global Ponzi scheme".

So does anyone have the numbers in terms of how much money FTP actually held in reserves? FTP was making good money on the rake, so 100% of player deposits should have been sitting in a reserve account somewhere. If it wasn't, they were asking for trouble.

Maybe when the dust settles we'll get all the facts?

Picked up the story first on my news feeds, then saw the REAL irony in the situation.

Do online players now have a better idea of where FT and others applied their BRM ?? ...

Maybe the course they really meant to teach at Full Tilt Academy was Bank Roll Manipulation ...

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If you followed the story, there was no legal requirement for FT or other sites to keep ANY reserve. All we had was THEIR WORD as trusted poker pros that your money was SAFE. So far, Pokerstars was the only site required to keep player funds segregated which is why they alone were able to repay players with the appropriate funds.

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I saw this today on my Yahoo page, first time I remember hearing the words "ponzi scheme" mentioned.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/09/feds-accuse-full-tilt-poker-of-being-ponzi-scheme/1?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed &utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28News+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

International online gambling site Full Tilt Poker stole $US440 million ($431.29 million) from players around the world in a Ponzi scheme used to pay lavish fees to board members, US prosecutors say.
Full Tilt "defrauded players by misrepresenting that their funds on deposit in online gambling accounts were safe, secure, and available for withdrawal at any time", the US Attorney's office for Southern Manhattan said on Tuesday.
"In reality, Full Tilt Poker did not maintain funds sufficient to repay all players, and in addition, the company used player funds to pay board members and other owners more than $440 million since April 2007."
The senior prosecutor, US Attorney Preet Bharara, said the site's top figures, including famed poker champions Howard Lederer and Christopher Ferguson, "lined their own pockets with funds picked from the pockets of their most loyal customers while blithely lying to both players and the public alike about the safety and security of the money deposited with the company".
In a classic pyramid scheme, gamblers were given the impression that they still had money deposited and were allowed to keep gambling, even when all that remained were "phantom" funds, prosecutors said.
The company ended up owing $US390 million worldwide.
"Full Tilt was not a legitimate poker company, but a global Ponzi scheme," Bharara said.
Full Tilt Poker was first sued by federal authorities in April as part of a broader crackdown on online gambling, which the Justice Department says is illegal.
The suit was revised and refiled on Tuesday in the still developing investigation.
According to The Wall Street Journal, Full Tilt attracted thousands of players betting billions of dollars annually.




http://www.smh.com.au/technology/tec...921-1kk0w.html

Fwiw durrrr is conducting what I'm sure will become a huge Q&A thread on the other forum. Although if you don't want to wade through the shite that I'm sure will infest it then you might want to wait for the interviews regarding FT he says he'll be looking to do in next few days (he specifically mentioned a possible interview with NoahSD)

Gotta give durrrr credited for showing up especially with the "Do you still respect durrrrr" poll. He's been on and off most of the day posting in the other thread.

And he's still saying he'll pay off on his guarantee.

Err, thanks for the interpretation, but I read the article, and do know that they were on the board of directors. I prefaced my comments about them with the word if which presupposes that they may not necessarily be guilty. Please read the entire post and you will see that my major bone of contention is with the Obama-Nation DOJ and its imperious action concerning a non-American business. Personally, I resent the actions of Full Tilt poker. I am certain that the seizure was a major determinent of their failure and we would all still be playing if the DOJ had not prosecuted in the first place.

It's always the nameless little guys getting reamed in the ass.

^^^^^^^^^^^ LOL ...

Is this Jay or Chris with Howard at the next live Vegas event ...



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