From The Dealers Chair

let me start by introducing myself..my name is matt..and i spent the better part of 6 years dealing in a high volume casino...we shot for 50 hands an hour..but you always have that one reaaalllly drunk guys you want to slap out of the chair and scream "next"....lol jk...we were always three tables full and 8 on the list....anyways ..i wanted to kind of give you a perspective of live vs online play.....or players ..or both kind of..and i kind of like to know what you all think about my observation..ok this was a limit 3/6 game...now where i live we only have a $300 pot limit..so nl is kind of futile...it is kind of a tight game...lots of old men..judges..cops...atty's..docs..you get my drift...more money than god players too.....its funny what you see when your NOT a player in the game..but what you dont realize what kind of covert player the dealer really is...we watch everything..its our job to protect you as a player as much as the casino we work for......but that aside ..watching ppl play is a unique dynamic to the game...after time your can almost tell where everybody is in the hand...sound bs i know...but everytime i prompt someone to bet(we are trained to prompt you repititively to keep the game moving so dont get mad at the dealer anymore for constantly saying "twenty to call"....)..i have to look them right in the face...like a detective almost...it seems to me that they always feel like your interrigating them and they either lie to you or speak the truth in volumes right through the whites of their eyes.sometimes with their bet.....its harder now that ev1 wears sunglasses..but in a limt games it seems to show too after time...now when i do play live i usually come out way ahead.. my nickname is "the nemisis" lol...because i know the players and the game well...btw i never tell these ppl what i have observed over time...and why would i ??..its a lifeline...but i share it with you bc i love u guys.....now online...geez i cant seem to put a dam dime back in....and the betting pattern is totally out of whack...and honestly i dont trust the rng...i know huge overdebated subject...i play all nl online...and i just dont understand why when i play very aggro and tight..why i cant seem to progress even in micro tnys....i just cant get the right read ever..idk help me chatters.. i read a lot here and have taken a ton of good advise from this forum...and i could really use some here.

31 readers and no respones????

Not to be a dick, but try using paragraphs next time.

It makes it easier to read. A lot of people probably looked at the format of the post and immediately click back on their browser, or did what I did and I didn't bother reading the first post.

Aggressive and Tight. How Tight. What is your table image?? I know I know. but if you only play quality hands, Don't take advantage of your image. I mean no action and blinds wearing you down. A real recipe for
losing. Well, you asked !!
Buzzo

31 readers and no response = needs cliff notes

Interesting post, i'd love to hear a few stories about what you've seen at the tables as a dealer and your insight to live play.

As for your problem with micro's the first thing to do is expect some idiot to call anything with any 2 cards. Sad but it happens more often than not. Quick example, last weekend at 1/2nl in the BB with AA I raise 20c, called by 1st postion and raised by the next three guys so of course I sove all in $3.50. Everyone calls, 1st pos 57 off suit followed by TT 99 and 22. Naturaly 57 makes a straight, I shrug it off as usual and rebought leaving the table up 4x my buy in within a half hour. That is micros, one minute your in with the best and crushed by the worst, if you get right back on your A game and not let a bad beat bother you then you will turn a profit with good play, resisting any attempts to play trash like the rest of the table.

Do take the time and read HH analysis forums, post any hands that gave you trouble (exclude the outcome of the hand for the sake of better debate when first posting) Also check out the video section, esp those by Zach, ChuckT, Icemonkey, F Paulson and other long time CC members. I just downlaoded a new one by FP and ChuckT today that looks to be a big help to my game.

Welcome to CC Matt, I expect we'll be seeing a lot of you and hopefully helping your online game and perhaps see you help others with your area of expertise, live play.

Sweet, another dealer on here

50 hands an hour seems crazy fast. If I can get half that many out of some of the tables I deal to I'd be doing well. Different clientelle, I guess

Hard to make much comment on your online game without seeing a few hands - post some in the hand analysis section and you'll get some better feedback.

are you serious ????did you even take the time to read it????or are you to the point in your game that you dont need advise..or maybe your pride wont let you accept any....as for me i just wanted to get some "quality"advise from some of the seasoned players around cc...ty for your response..

obviously you have misunderstood the whole jist of what i am getting at...yes i do steal blinds when i recognize i have the opportunity to do so...yes i do play more hands than i prob should close to the bubble..but from the books i have read and the posts from here as well i have gathered that is a somewhat good strategy..and it has propelled me into a few money rounds doing so...usually having a good size stack after the bubble breaks...so inactivity is definatley not an issue...nice way to try to build your post count.. when you do make it to 50 i hope to see you at the tables so i can show you my table image...

nice post ,

looking your table image . if you are a TAG , LAG , or just plain out PASSIVE .

using those three terms . watching the table . give those labels to your oppents by how they play thats the best way i can say how to do online players.

1) if their LAG open up your play against them
2) if their TAG only play premuim hands against them
3) if their Passive they mite suck out on you their more so a calling-statoin

Often times this game gets folded to the blinds.super tight game..very easy to read (and steal a lot if im in the game lol)..it moves super fast from 11 am till about 6 pm...and then the fun starts lol..we usually get an avg of 30 hd/hr from then till closing at 2am....wish i friggin owned the place after counting the rake lol...here is a funny thought for the other dealers.....you ever want to reach out there and bet for someone who doesnt realize they are about to miss a bet lol???

I didnt realize i was going to get an English Composition exam..geez

He's quite right, if you want people to read long posts, then use paragraphs.

Other than that post some hands in HA or give some example situations where you think you may have played it wrong.

Matt lol. Honestly - I could not read past the first line. Paragraphs are essential.

i will do better in the future...sorry all

I agree. You need to lay it out so that its easier on the eyes. If you are new to osting of forums, you will soon get the hang of making things more readable.

I have read it and look forward to reading any insites that you have gleened through your days of dealing.

To be sucessfull at microstakes online, try and play better cards than your opponents and bluff less.

People are playing all sorts of crazy cards at the micro tables so you gain instant advantage by playing better quality cards.

People bluff way too much, so try not to get involved.. the problem is that if your opponent catches even a small part of the flop, he will over play it.. so I am using a sort of weak agressive approach.

Im fairly aggressive preflop and will c-bet fequently on the flop.. beond that im checking maybe calling and often folding if I dont hold at least the 3rd best possible hand.

At micro stakes this works well because people lay all sorts of stuff down preflop and on the flop.. but beond that you have to expect a showdown... if I can see a cheap one ill call it if I have any hand.. when it gets expensive ill lay it down.

People must be assuming that they can bluff me easily.. but you cant bluff a guy holding the nuts!! and these guys are trying to bluff big on highly coordinated boards.. its just a bad play but so many people seem to be making it!!!

i find myself constantly getting in the way of someone bluffing...my problem is they always seem to draw out on me...and usually its the river that fills a gutshot ..nothing frustrates me more...

All you can do here is charge the draws and excercise pot control, if there is a flush draw on and all you hold is top pair.. keep the pot size down. If its the other way round.. bet big.

The one I get more often is having to bite my tongue when someone calls a bet for 90% of their stack and leaves the last 10% behind.

Like I said, different clientelle I guess - I deal private functions, not at a casino (there's only one in town here, and I'd rather keep the option to play there) so we have an awful lot of hopeless donkeys at our tables. Get you real good at sorting multiple side pots though

Personally I'd love to do a stint of dealing.. not forever but for a year or so.. just to get more of a feel for how people play.. whilst picking up a pay cheque for my troubles of course!!

lol sounds like a pool full of fish

I have the same trouble you do. Online is a different animal completely in my eyes. I do not know if its just my feeling or what. I just feel more control of reads and more confident live than online.

Variance just seems to get me online. If I slow play top set live with two others in on a rainbow flop it seems to hold. Online and with only one other player in the pot it seems the runner runner or two outer comes. Could it be selective memory? I dont know.

So for this reason I treat online as enjoyment only.

Like was saying ..its a unique dynamic...watching ppls actions and reactions..the smokers...the drinkers...the crackheads..lol we have a meth prob here in montucky...

I guess when i sit there i am observing more of the psychological element of the game...imo your body language can be a deadly weapon..its a crucial part of your live game...

i try to pay closer attn now to how ppl react directly after they look at their cards...you would not believe the reads i get...even from the oooold seasoned players..


So next time you sit down at a live table try this...wait till ev1 has their cards b4 you even look at yours...but this time pay closer attn then you ever have..

this goes back to the rigtard threads....just read one there..about the guy who claimed he knows the programmer..he was talking about that very scenario..and ill be damned if i didnt see a lot of the things happen he said would...i know ..i am acting like a rigtard now...i also read another one some time back that had to do with ftp and their shuffler.

It said something about the deck constantly being shuffled..even during the progress of the hand...wouldnt this throw off the implied odds????

You are definately right here.

The problem I feel is that people dont know what to look out for.. and therefore ask about tells.

The problem is that one guy scratching his ear may be very different to the next guy doing the same thing.

Its more the overall picture.. tells are not learned behaviour rather the physical effects of excess adrenalin, perspiration, anxiety etc etc...

So its something that comes with experience of observing. I think people at live tables are over eager to put tells into practice. By being the dealer you are prevented from doing that and so would gain a good foundation.

Incidentally, I just thought of this, but I should imagine that many dealers become quite good at spotting the physical signs of whats going on and over time learn a great deal about their regulars.

How big a tell would it be to observe, not only the players, but the dealers reaction to their actions... especially if you were a new face and had no previous experience of the players.. but knew that they were regulars.. so knew that the dealer had experience of them.

I doubt it would, as long as it is random. Of course, if there is a shuffle while hand is in progress, you might get another card, but odds remain the same - if there were, say, 15 outs, they will be there no matter what you do with the deck.

Well actually I think its how players play online. When you are putting in real chips etc., you think a bit more. Online you just hit the button are rushed more and so on. Some people just sit there and say ok Im calling without actually thinking about whats on the board etc.. Are there players like this at live games as well? Yes(drunks and crack heads calling a all in against the regular with pocket deuces and three paint on the board LOL, we all have seen them), but not as many so for that reason I expect the variance to be somewhat off. If you get my drift with this.

i bet it is alot different when all u do is observe the players the whole time .

EXCELLENT ??? and i am glad you brought it up..you should definatley watch the dealer..often times they have been there for a long time..esp if the game is solid..i mean full all the time..tips are great then....dont put em back in the game though lol....

Back to your question...i have used this to my advantage many times..usually the dealers around the different casinos know each other from tourneys and such...i like to go into a new game and sometimes only watch the dealer for the first 1/2 hour or so see who they know well...it doesnt take long until you find them making certain gesture towards players they know well...a little extra eye contact and such..

Case and point..I have a friend who also deals...in a diff casino...when i go play in his game... its almost like we are telepathically connected...I couldnt tell you how many times he has told me to turn over my hand at showdown and it goes something like this 2nd best hand has 2pr and rolls over quick "i got 2 pr"... he looks at me and says"show em your set of 7s" chuckling ..and thats exactly what i flip over...


So yeah ..imo ....watch the dealer as much if not more than the other players in certain situations...i am not saying this is a failproof method to a profit..but its another observation most ppl dont take the time to utilize..

this article if i remeber right also stated that the mucked cards were also shuffled in...

ye i have seen these players..lol i call these ppl "more money than god "players...extremley wealthy business types that think its funny to jam the pot full just to see if they can get you to fold a good hand...i see it all the time...good thing im not in the game lol..

wow you guys need a break from the computer if you cant read a post without paragraphs..lol

how can u deal 50 hands /hour live at a limit table? its not possible.

reason is posted above

I played in live for a while back in Vegas in the good 'ol days. For me on-line is totally different. The action moves much quicker (obviously). But 'playing the person not the cards' is completely different. You only have betting patterns to go by and the speed by which someone bets, calls or raises. Live you have tells to work with. That took a long time to get used to.

I guess that's a reason why some pros do very well live and get eaten up on-line and vice-versa. Treat on-line as if you are learning all over again. The biggest mistake you can make is thinking you have an advantage because you were involved in the game for so many years.

Long Post with Cliff Notes at Conclusion.

In order to maximize your input consider taking our advice when it is offered to you, specifically when you ask for it. Nobody said anything rude to you. In order to offer advice on your posts we need to be able to consume them.

No I did not take time to read the op. It looked very muddling. This is what you then said to me when I said so (which as a dealer I must say you've picked up quite a tell on me that you can identify this without ever seen a hand played)

Oh sweet prideful irony! No, to answer your question. My pride did not prevent me from reading your post which was apparently full of advice for me.

You were then offered from another member:

...and again got defensive about a point that was becoming the consensus opinion

As a dealer I'm sure you have a ton of useful and unique insight that I look forward to reading in the future. We're all here to learn from each other and in order to do so we must maintain an open minded manor and be able to take constructive criticism.

Cliff Notes on my above post:

[x] Can't we all just get along
[x] We're here to help each other
[x] I look forward to hearing about your unique perspective in the future
[ ] I have too much pride to take advice
[x] Recognizes irony of this long post