Creative Deception - unethical?

So I have been tinkering with a new deception method. occasionally when dealt AA / KK pre flop (i play at $10nl) on my turn to act I go all in and follow one of 2 routes.

type either

i)"FFS damn mouse"

ii) a load of gobbledegoop and lots of "FFS ARRGHHH TILLLLLT"


I am getting a nice amount of callers and making a decent amount doing this rather than playing AA or KK normally. One player called me with J9 off (for $9 of his substantial $33 stack). Upon asking why, he said "i thought you were tilting, and J9 is slightly above average hand" And congratulated me on my deception. others have said its unethical / stupid.

We have heard about High stakes players turning tells into reverse tells - Negreanu and his blink. and I feel my method is just using deception.


What are your thoughts, not on the move as a strategical play, but on the moral issues?


Thanks

Stuventus

IT's poker anything is fair. Years ago the check-raise was concidered bad form

I say do what u want
i have friends that make a scene with every play so you never can get a tell

or how about the " i have to go to bed" or " i have to go to work " That i keep hearing but i don't fall for it...

Ethically, I think you're on safe ground.

Tactically, if you occasionally get a fullstack call, then it's probably a profitable move. However, if you only do this move with AA or KK, the regs are going to notice and amend their game appropriately. That kind of move will definitely stick out in people's minds. I'd be interested in seeing some hand histories where this has worked.

Personally, I'd roll my eyes and mutter a few choice words under my breath at you. You're not doing anything wrong per se though, so best of luck to you.

Vic does have a point, if you did this regularly at higher stakes (in my brief experience with $10NL, the vast majority of regs are nits who wouldn't call you with J9 even if they did believe what you'd typed) a move like this is going to become completely transparent.

all fair in war and poker lol

Not unethical, just dumb. I can't believe anyone's dumb enough to fall for that. It's like the guy playing live that sorta groans when the card comes out then bets. Of course he's got the nuts.

:-( i fall for the 'Oops, I thought I had the nuts' shove all the time.

ROFL, you say "Argh Tilt" and someone calls?

At sites where it has people sitting at the table choose the hot blonde with a lot of cleavage showing for your character. Almost all the guys assume you are a female that looks like that character which of course means they think you're easy money.

The old lady works equaly as well, she gets no respect....

Pretty funny that people buy into it so easily, just look at the average characters and you'll see more using the unibomber for their alter ego than any other avatar.

Just another poker bluff, this time using visual table image instead of chips.

Personally, I never call big bets from people with the wizard avatar.

I mean c'mon, it's a freakin' wizard! How can he not know what I have?!?

I always wonder who is really sitting behind those.

Tricking people by blaming your mouse takes it a bit far, I think. Acting like you're on tilt, if people have a reason to believe it, is kosher in my book.

I've never actually seen anyone use the "I gotta go" routine and not mean it, although they could just put it on "sitting out" in tournaments and hope for the best.

I played a lot with the bikini-avatar on FT and it always worked for me, one opponent seeing that I was HOT and could play poker wanted a date and a pic of me.
He got the pic - must have been a real setback

I changed to the clown-avatar on nov. 1 and was on downslide since then - now I changed it back.....

needs a slap lol. If im sitting at a table and someone says, ffs sick of playing, then goes alll in.....come on....how stupid do you have to be to think 'hmmm maybe he's only got 2 3, or something like 8 4..wow i must be miles ahead, ill call that' Poker is all about desception so its certainly not unethical, but if you fall for it, you shouldnt be playing at all....

awww man, i picked the clown avatar and it has been bad.
i will try the old lady and the bikini and see if that helps
i will check back to let you know

Perhaps you should play more at $10nl before telling me what words and what doesnt. It has been far more profitable doing this then raising hard and still getting called by 3 hands that then forget they have a fold button.


more often then you would think

Lol, this is what I thought I saw when I first read your post

I use the buxom blonde avatar at Cake, and it's amazing how often I get comments that indicate they actually believe I'm a woman. One player wanted to set up a private chat room!! Instead of cleaning his pipes I cleaned his clock!

Lots of times I see the guys who buy in real short do that.
Never give them any action . Well..... almost never.
I play 10NL right now and I see people buy in for 2 bucks,double up and leave right away.
And if anybody buys into the mis-click or "I'm tilting " crap then they deserve to lose.
Question to the OP........ How many times do you just collect the blinds and get no action at all.

[ ] creative
[ ] will deceive anyone who is smarter than a baboon

Obv my style of play with any hand depends on the other players. If there are more players with brain cells rather than hyper donks i just raise hard as you might feel more conventional with AA/KK.

If i find the aforementioned hyperdonk table, I will usually just push all in with these hands.

My estimate on the breakdown.

0 callers 40%
1 caller 40%
2(+) callers 20%

Can't believe that BS would work. Online the only tells are playing long enough against an opponent to know their tendencies. I would think this BS action of ohh dam wrong button would just be another tell that you are strong. I never did say there aren't a lot of poker players on-line with an IQ slightly above a pea so maybe it would work on some.

But to be fair, you get AA/KK/QQ at 10NL, it really doesn't matter what you bet to get callers.
I mean at that level there is no real need to decieve the utterly clueless, is there?

yeah some people would probably call with theit T8s even if they had hole card hax software that showed you had AA-QQ.

"WPT said sooted connectors r teh best handz 4 busting aces wit!!!!"

To OP, if someone is silly enough to call you then they deserve to get stacked :P.

You'd be suprised FTP 10NL atm, the majority of tables i've been on FR i'm lucky to get 1 or 2 with a VPIP > 20, it's not a table selection thing either it's all across it, they buy in for the min and only raise premium so you just pick at the blinds and fold to raises lol.

but then again...

Full Tilt Poker Game #8912122262: Table Mount Auburn - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:37:24 ET - 2008/11/10
Seat 1: Mehman666 ($18.75)
Seat 2: LEARNEDTOWIN ($7.60)
Seat 3: Benny-Bar ($10.70)
Seat 4: LadyOfPerm ($1.60)
Seat 5: JDHoldem ($6.70)
Seat 6: MAVERICK913512 ($1.40)
Seat 7: blount84 ($1.75)
Seat 8: ChipShip ($10)
Seat 9: mavsman3126 ($3.95)
blount84 posts the small blind of $0.05
ChipShip posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mehman666 [Ad Ah]
mavsman3126 folds
Mehman666 raises to $0.30
LEARNEDTOWIN calls $0.30
Benny-Bar raises to $10.70, and is all in
LadyOfPerm folds
JDHoldem folds
MAVERICK913512 folds
blount84 folds
ChipShip has 15 seconds left to act
ChipShip adds $0.10
ChipShip folds
Mehman666 calls $10.40
LEARNEDTOWIN folds
Benny-Bar shows [8s 8c]
Mehman666 shows [Ad Ah]
*** FLOP *** [7h Jc 3h]
*** TURN *** [7h Jc 3h] 6♣
*** RIVER *** [7h Jc 3h 6c] 2♣
Benny-Bar shows a pair of Eights
Mehman666 shows a pair of Aces
Mehman666 wins the pot ($19.85) with a pair of Aces
Benny-Bar is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $21.85 | Rake $2
Board: [7h Jc 3h 6c 2c]
Seat 1: Mehman666 showed [Ad Ah] and won ($19.85) with a pair of Aces
Seat 2: LEARNEDTOWIN folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Benny-Bar showed [8s 8c] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 4: LadyOfPerm didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: JDHoldem didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: MAVERICK913512 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: blount84 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: ChipShip (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: mavsman3126 didn't bet (folded)

You have to remember that most of the players at $10 nl do not read articles or poker forums, they just play.

I do lots of spade work to add to the illusion of tilt, buying in for a random amount eg $9.27 so it looks like my last few dollars. And also typing about my "alleged bad beat for example " I had AK before the flop, and go all in, how can he call with a small pair??? I WAS FAVE FFS!!!!"

This actually does work I'm pretty sure. I know that if I see someone with an odd amount I sorta assume it's all they've got. I'd consider calling pretty light against someone like that who just open shoved. The thing is I've done it in the past and the majority of the people like that really are tilting and on their last dollars, so calling the shove with TT it usually +ev, but if you do it the other way it could work. Only problem is it works once against each opponent. If you do it at a table, that's 8 people who just saw you open shove AA and won't call you so light next time. Maybe it's fine at 10nl where there probably aren't a ton of regs. One other thing I've seen is someone open shoves and says in the chat box "AA". They'll get called light and flip over AA lol. I don't know if it's the strong means weak or whether it's just another variable that messes with their mind, but I've seen that trick work pretty high up.

Basically the point is though even if it works at 10nl, it's not really a very good general poker strategy if you have any intention of actually improving your game and moving up. And if you're a regular at all, the other regs aren't going to fall for that kind of move because they know you're not that bad lol.

Alls fair in love and war and I guess this would also include poker.

I've gone for the next line of thinking behind that.

Everyone now looks at the bimbo with her £""$ on show and thinks easy money - no wait - is it some bloke sitting behind that, I'll be careful.

Much better to pick a female friendly animal, the sort of cutesy pie, non-obnoxious thing that most namby-pamby ladies will go 'ooooohhh' for, but no rough and ready blokes.

For mine I've got a frog - a large % of people presume I'm female, and I even get flirtacious advances (ps I'm not, and plenty of hair on the chest to prove it).

It's the next stage of deception.

Interesting that the check-raise was previously frowned on. Personally I love fooling peope with a strong hand from an apparently weak postion, much more enjoyable than playing a high pair and then winning a little with it.
But then again I don't have a big bank-roll, so perhaps that's what I'm doing wrong.

But I must admit I wouldn't fall for your 'annoyed mouse' tactics, not until I've seen you call someone else when you had 28 unsuited.

I like it. Sometimes when I make s big hands I ask the opponent if He has a smaller hand like if I had a full house I might ask 'u got the flush?'

You should be ashamed of that remark. How could you be so unkind to baboons ?

i may have to change my avatar on FT and see what happens!!!

back to the point.
anything you can do to misdirect is ok. and usually expected. Most players know acting weak means strong and visa versa. However when playing with regulars sometimes i mix it up and act strong when i really am - and sometimes that works (especially live.) but typing in ive got AA before u go all in (when u really do!) - guaranteed to get disbelievers.
note: do NOT do this in a live tourney as telling the truth can get u in trouble.

I wouldn't say it is unethical. If people fall for it that is their fault. Same as when people type "I gotta go, free chips" The fact that you can type this about your mouse before others act would automatically tell me you are full of it. If you really made a mistake chances are you would shut up about it.