Coach me or its over!

Hello All,

Been a while since I posted! (sounds like an AA meeting...lol)

Im at my witts end with online poker. Been playin online at multiple sites for for over 2 years and sad to say I am not a profit poker player.

Thought I was actually good enough to play this game, as I play home games 3 times a week aend in the money about 56% or better of the time. But of course over a 3 year period you get to know your opponents pretty well (average 10 same players every week) and mistakingly took that as WOW I can actually play this game.

Have multiple online accounts and over the last 2 years have managed to burn my Bankroll multiple times. Which leads me to believe NOPE not a poker player.

Im sure some of the responses to this are going to be:
1. Are you Reading
2. Are you managing your Bankroll properly
3. Do you understand Pot Odds, Hand Odds, Implied Odds
4. And propbably many more

The answer is yes to all of the above except I still cant turn a profit. And to be honest Im not talking about a profit of $5 or $10 a week. Hell I can get a part time job that I hate and do better than that.

My real question here is, is there anyone here who has a PLAN for making money at this game that has successfully worked and would they be willing to coach me. I love this game, I thought I was good (but apparently not) and am willing to become a good student to anyone who is willing to coach me into a path of at least profit.

Thanks for letting me air - and I refuse to reload on any site until someone can tell me to give it up or show me a plan that works.

One of two things applies here if you believe your points 1-4 are applicable to you.

1) You're not as good as you think you are.

2) You're the unluckiest person alive.

It's one thing reading something in a book, it's entirely another thing actually applying this knowledge at a poker table. You may well have read about bankroll management but when you take a sizeable hit do you move up and chase losses? You may well have read and understood pot/implied odds but when a LAG-fish bets the pot on a low 2-flush flop and you have a flush draw and two overcards, are you consciously applying what you know or are you just thinking "ME CALL" or "ME ARRRIN"?

Seriously, if you are a good player and you do exercise proper BR management, the probability of you busting is very small. The probability of you busting multiple times is incredibly minute.

The best advice I can give is post some hands in the hand analysis forums. You may find that decisions you thought were close are actually not close, you may find that what you consider easy shoves are actually folds, and you may discover other, more general leaks in your game.

One final note, home games aren't really poker - at least not if they're anything like the games I used to play. Don't read anything into how well or badly you perform at them, especially if copious amounts of alcohol are involved.

Good luck.

Thanks for the response.

Posting hands is what everyone reads time and time again. Im thankful you where willing to respond and I can say safely that you may very well be correct in your assumption in my game.

Im still looking for the answer in my original question!

A PLAN!!

Is there one?

Give me a bankroll number to begin with, limit to play at and Im willing to post anything and everything on my play in order to determine my quality play.

I could go on and on about how I think Im playing, but at this point Im willing to bet IM on the HIGH side of POUR PLAYING.

What I am looking for is someone who is willing to spend time lookong and following my game, and coach me where I need it. I am currently BLINDED by my own idiotic play.

Again thank you

I can point you to an excellent article that drew me to become a member of this forum in the first place:

CardsChat Strategy Articles: Poker Lessons

This series really does get into making a plan for improving your game.

Posting in the hand analysis sections is the best coaching you can get. You will get multiple someones to look at your game there. Bankroll management will tell you what limits to play depending on how much you are willing to risk and deposit. If somebody could give you what he thinks is a fool-proof plan, he, himself, is a fool.

thanks for the response.

will head that way!

Im not sure if Im suprised or just shocked at this point that I haven't had a few offers on the coaching part.

It seems to me that when ever someone post something about there game or a play on a hand the comments and suggestions come a flying.

Interesting how nobody currently thinks or should I say has a PLAN that has been working for them and is willing to put them self out there for someone else.

Maybe I shouldn't have been so trusting in thinking people actually have plans at this game and impliment them. OR maybe I will have to pay for this coaching????hmmmmmm that might be it.

again thanks

I think perhaps the reason you aren't getting what you want is that no such thing as a full-proof plan exists. Every poker player is different. What works for me may not work for you and visa versa. Yes, there are fundamentals of the game that can be shared and "coached" and as PigPen said the best way to get that sort of help is by posting hand histories.

No one is being a poker snob to you, it's just you seem to want more than any of us are even capable of giving.

Well there is a plan, and some very definate ones. Chris Ferg's bankroll from zero to 10K springs to mind.

The thing is before you can consider any sort of plans is that you need to be a winning player FIRST. If you are a losing player, especially one that thinks he knows it all coaching you would be an extremly difficult task.

Actually here is a plan, deposit $100 and play nl$5 until you have your bankroll up to $200.

Play nl$10 until your bankroll is up to $500.

Play nl$50 until your bankroll is up to $2,000

Play nl$100 until your bankroll is up to $4,000

Play nl$200 and cash out all your surplus winnings over $5K.

^there's a plan

Here's another one..


Play solid poker at a level you can afford until you consistently win.


There's no shortcut, winning poker is a grind and if you aren't prepared to spend time learning how to win $5 or $10 you'll never win anything significant.


Post some hand histories, you'll learn more that way than any other

Ouch!!!
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The thing is before you can consider any sort of plans is that you need to be a winning player FIRST. If you are a losing player, especially one that thinks he knows it all coaching you would be an extremly difficult task.
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Im sure your not implying Im a LOSING KNOW IT ALL PLAYER!!!

I think thats an oximoron!!!!!!!

As far as being a winning player FIRST, I think thats why Im here asking questions.

I do thank you for the remainder of your post!

He's not trying to be condescending or anything, SF. Stating that you know all about odds, BR management etc in the same post saying that you simply can't win is just a little odd. You may think you know more than you really do. Either that, or like Chris said, you may be just a really really unlucky player.

I agree with the other posts' suggestions; post hand histories here and you'll get some nice feedback that will no doubt help you out. Analyze others' HHs as well.

I'll do a hand history audit or two if you like. PM me and I'll give you my email address.

First please let me clarify from my original post.

I certainly do not what to send the message as a "know it all". I was simply trying to make note that I am familiar with the game of poker and had knowledge of the topics I had listed as to shorten the responses I would get from folks in the hopes to get right to the point. I am sorry for any confussion caused.

I am a 3 year old player and have some knowledge of odds, bankroll management, books etc. and I am very open to learning more.

Not very knowledgable about how to even retrieve my hand history though and am a little embarassed to admit that but I do have 3 SNG tourny's from AB. How and/or where so I post.

BEING OPEN MINDED AND THANKFUL

There's your problem

That's a pretty generous offer. I can do the same for you if you wish.

I'm not going to comment on the rest because it seems the other posters covered it all + you are not explaining how exactly you went broke several times. But it's irrelevant anyway.

If you're interested in a HH audit, just PM me.

I don't use AB, but they should have either some function in the client that allows you to request hand histories, or at least they should be able to email them to you if you request it.

Like I said, PM me the HHs when you get them, and I'll analyze them for you if you want. I'll post the relevant hands here in the HA section along with my analysis for others to see/reply to as well.

There's no other way to become a winning player then understanding the game. Read the books, and like others have said, learn how to apply them. A coach will only verbalize what is being said in print--and cost you big money.

Past that, I think you are missing a key point here--poker, and becoming a winning player, has little to do with making money. Sure one follows the other, but you cannot equate a game where luck plays a portion to the outcome, and expect a positive return everytime. However, you being 'unlucky all the time' is silly as well--that's just not true.

Stop trying to 'win money' and start trying play the game properly. Playing the game right will then equate to an overall positive win rate--key point OVERALL. Perfect play will not mean extra cash every night. However, you focus on the outcome, you will lose sight of the proper way to get to the outcome you want.

Take everyones advice here, because like everyone has hinted at, you are not playing the game right. This is a game of skill and the cream will rise. You won't end up winning every session, but until you actually learn the game properly, you will have a negative outcome. As we are trying to tell the US legistlation poker is a game of skill. The ones who have skill will take money from those that are not as skilled.

As for 'hiring a coach'. 2 things:
1) If there is someone good enough to actually coach you, they are playing the game and making good money--which means you are going to pay a premium dollar so they are spending it with you instead of making it on the felt.
2) Save your money on a coach and learn the game properly from books/forums. If you can't get it from a book, or through forum hand analisys, well, there's flyfishing as a hobby too. Smell the coffee.

Well one thing is for sure.

You post here and you better be ready for lashins...thankfully I have tough skin.

I am taking all of this in.......maybe bit off a little more than I can chew in one day, but will continue to read and apply advise given.

I have hand history I would like to post here for 3 SNG tounys from AB but its telling me there are to many characters when I try and PM to those who are willing to look. Can I trim them up a bit or is there another avenue.

It may not appear this way to all but I am very thankful for those who are truely being helpful...although I have to admit I am having a little bit of a hard time seeing the difference in some helpful constructive statements and ones that are really just being rude.

I really do want the help so I will try and be the bigger person and ignore the noncustructive comments and focus on the more helpful constructive statements.

Again thanks

This is a site with mostly poker players, not many of which want to take the time to individually coach a player. Would you go up to baseball players and ask them to help you out with your swing?


Thankfully people here a very helpful, and none of them have been insulting you. No one is interested in being a coach, and if you really want one you can find one, although it'll cost a good deal of money. Anyone who thinks poker is easy money is lying, it's a tough grind and you should be willing to work at it.

My recommendations:
1. get poker tracker. It's worth the $50 and much much more.
2. USE poker tracker. Play some games and after a few sessions take a look at your stats. Where are you losing money? Where are you winning money? If you can't figure out what you did wrong or even if you did anything wrong, post the HHs here and people will be more than willing to help you.
3. Follow a strict BRM plan and STICK TO IT. One is mentioned above, but make sure that even when you are on tilt (it WILL happen, I don't know anyone who is immune to it) you have the will power to not move up levels and quit for the day
4. Use this site. If you have general strategic questions or specific hands, there are plenty of really helpful people here that can improve your game immensely. Even reading other situations can help you understand poker better.

Zach hit something that all of us forgot to suggest. Pokertracker. HUGE help to really tell you some stats. Let's you know when you think you are playing really well, and then look down and notice you are seeing 53% of the flops--been there. Oopsies.

Pokertracker will 'coach' you a ton if you invest a little time in what it has to say.

You are probably misinterpreting tone in some of the posts. I can only tell you that you have responses from some of the best players in this forum - and it has been a while since I have seen so many of them in one thread.

Go back and read them again - knowing that they were all trying to help you out and their intentions were not to be rude.

You have Dorkus, Tenbob, Irexes, ChuckT's and Joeeagles all offering some great advice and willingness to assist you - take them up on it, they only respond to requests they think have substance or potential.

Welcome back to Cardschat!

IF there was a 'PLAN" proven to work, do you really think anyone would share it?

What we can do is to help you become a solid poker player. This will of course probably make your home games either totally fruitless, or totally no fun.

Prior to me coming here, I thought I had a decent game, winning a couple of Party Poker Freerolls will do that to ya, but I found out otherwise. Most of what I learned early on here was stuff I already knew, but had never formalized in my mind. Biggest for instance I can remember is the position steal. Before I understood the importance of position, I considered it delivering up the pot on a silver platter to the last guy to act. In my mind I called it the silver platter pot.

Same thing with the first real poker book I read, SS2. Most of it I was aware of, but was not sure why I was doing it.

Point is, don't get discouraged. Hang in there, rather, hang in here, post some hands, read most hands, try to understand what is being said, always asking questions. We love showing off the fact that we can read and occasionally even answer questions.

That you have come to us and asked is, like you said, just about like AA.

If you're looking at learning to play this game properly, I have a plan that I could share with you. Actualy it's the one i'm using at the moment and it's doing good for me.

PM me with your email and I will send you a copy of it so that you could evaluate it. We could take it from there and make the necessary adjuestments for what you are better at.

WOW!!!

Thank you all for the posts! Today is going to be a better day.

I am taking the larger portions of the post and really ready to make a committment. I am going to spend the majority of my day first rereading the posts. Looking a little deeper into what has been said, and truely taking a look at what my personal goals are. I think yesterday was a TILT day for me. I am truely appreciative for all of the input. I learned alot about myself and alot of you were willing to tell me what I don't want to hear but need to if I want to move forward.

Iam going to spend some time working on my goals and a plan that fits my needs(if I read anything, it was, that it's "my plan" not "the plan", order a couple books(major weak point), look into the Poker Tracker Software.

Funny thing I noticed as I am typing this response - I have alot of work ahead of me and I ready for the challenge.

Maybe it didn't come out correctly in the beginning of my post, but for what its worth to any and all.....there has been alot of FREE COACHING from this thread and I appreciate it all.

Now then, Im off to start work (my plan) and will hopefully be starting a new thread soon with a more positive outlook.

Hope I came across as harshly as it seemed .

The thing is if your a loser at poker there is a reason, and most losers tend not to listen to any sort of constructive advise. You seem to be different, so ill persevere here, nice reply there.

There is a few things that you can do straight away.
1) Get poker-tracker, even if your only playing very small stakes, buying it and learning to use it effectively will help plug leaks in your game, and very quickly.
2) Decide on the format of poker that you want to play and concentrate on it, wither it be large tournaments, single table tournaments or ring games, choose one, and learn the in's and outs of the game. Holdem is the same basic idea, but the different formats drastically change how you should actually play the game,
3) Post any tricky hands for anaylsis. Dont be afraid of being told you made an ass of a hand, youll get an outlook that may be vastly different to your own, what you may think is an easy call may be infact an easy raise.
4) Learn bankroll managment, draft up yourself a plan of action and stick to it, similar to the plan i outlined above but a little more detailed.
5) Read books, read the forum, relpy to hand histories even if your unsure. The best HA threads are the ones with several different opnions, and dont be afraid of constructive critism.
6) Enjoy it, your not going to become an instant thousandaire, but you might be a hundredaire in a few months, this process should be fun.

Thanks tenbob,

Looking at the Poker Tracker site as we speak.

Im working on my goals also and have to admit a little nervous about the NL table. My perspective between a NL CASH game and a NL TOUNAMENTis a little skewwed(sp). Here is an example of my BAD habits.

Deposit $50 ----- go play $1/$2 LIMIT ($10 buy-in) until I lose or double. OK before you comment I realize there are big problems here, but I want to explain my fear of the NL table. Regardless of my outcome from above I then go play a ($10 sit-n-go 9 player) and hold my breath to see if I can hit the money (fearlessly scared....lol). ok again I see big problems here also. ***My question is this, your example above refers to NL, any suggestions for LIMIT, POT LIMIT, or just get my crap together and learn to be confident in NL.

OK give it to me.......And really be honest, I need it when setting up my goals. I want to be able to stick to my goals, but Im sure at this point I am a waivering idiot and need to be honest with myself.

Thank You in Advance

There's nothing wrong with playing FL or PL if you think you're better at it or enjoy it more. FP's guide might help: http://www.cardschat.com/poker/guide/

The problem is with your bankroll management. $1/$2 limit takes a $400-$1000 bankroll. $10 SnG takes a $500-$1000 bankroll. If you are just throwing $50 away on a test, so be it. If you want a real plan, get a bigger bankroll or go to much lower limits. The NL$5 mentioned in tenbob's post was $5 maximum buy-in, not $2.5/$5 stakes.

I decided the smartest thing for ME to do was just generate a bankroll out of NOTHING! The logic behind this is clear, simple, and I think rather good: If you create a bankroll from 0 and take it from there, several things happen.
First of all, you're not gambling ANYTHING except time.
Second, you'll know you have enough skill to play at a table if you've done good enough to finish in a freeroll for enough money.
Third, EVERYTHING here is based off of nothing but your poker skill, leaving whatever bankroll you need for life out of it.

This is my angle, and I suggest it to you.

I think with the $5o roll, you should be at either the $10 max or $25 max, depending on how comfortable you feel. If you are scared to play in the games, it will affect how you play, IMO. I started playing $2 SNGS and did have decent with them, but I started getting sick and tired of them. I have recently switched to the $10 max, with my $100 roll and play NL holdem cash games. If you stick to a tight style of play, and find a very loose table, you can profit pretty decently. I would start small first, then move up