Cheat Software

Do you guys think it exists and is being used?

I may sound paranoid, but I was playing in an MTT the other day and happened to notice this guy make an extrememly strange play. Out of position he bet into a raised pot with what turned out to be 42 off. Normally i'd put it down to your box standard online crazy raiser, but when the flop came down 448 I began to wonder how inspired his reraise really was. So, I started to watch and the same player made a few curious plays, but every time he did so he connected with the flop, well.


So I did a bit of digging and found a few software applications available for purchase which claimed to be able to amongst other things:

See [2] Opponents Pocket Cards
View [3] Community Cards Pre-Flop
View Dominant Suit Pre-Flop

And that was another thing I noticed, the hands he did lose, he lost on turn or river cards, or a comibination of both. Which seems to fit with the limitations of the software.

Anyway, the reason I post this is in the hope that someone can put my mind at rest, as this guy really got me thinking.

ONLINE-- Ive seen the advertisement to see opponent's hole cards....they just use that to interest you. Once you check into it (I was bored one night), you need all kinds of information from someone else's pc to see their hole cards (ip address, etc). So it's not a magic program that just shows everyone at the table. Then they tried to push an odds calculator and 'bot' after you're disappointed that you can't see everyone's cards.

BUT-- I'm sure we ALL wonder if some underground guy or team has developed something. I know if they do, they won't be selling it.

GL-- workingdog

With Random Number Generators being used, once the hand is dealt are the community cards then established and just not shown, or do they get turned off a virtual deck after each round of betting?

YEh i've wondered that too. For example, if last to act takes a second longer to call, does that affect the next community card?


I'm beginning to develop superstitions y'see.

I doubt that its possible, the poker websites won't allow this to happen, something like this makes them lose their credibility with their players. They usually have great security and everything to be free of this. What you encountered is more likely just a donk who was on a sick run of cards.

Everyone has seen some crazy stuff online, that seems like that MUST somehow be cheating because they hit.

Then again, I've played against people and watched them lose so much money on absolutley rediculous hands. I told my buddy that it must be a mad wife logged on and losing all her husband's money on purpose, lol.

Also remember you're seeing 100+ hands an hour, so the odds for seeing a specific crazy hand go up.

Even if youre just seeing one crazy guy hit hand after hand after hand... how many people here can say theyve never hit a sick run of cards? I mean, making a donk play like raising with 4 2 off out of position is always going to be a bad play, but that doesn't mean it won't pay off occasionally. Hitting that hand shows how lucky the guy is, not necessairily that he is cheating. Eventually a play like that will even out and turn out negative, but if it happens to you all you can do is write a note that the opponent is a moron and go on playing your game.

That's another thing i'm curious about, how does everyone else make notes on other players?

Normally i'll just write down hand after hand in the note box if I see them do something I feel is noteworthy. For example, limped in late position with rockets, slow played it to the river sort of thing. Is that the way to go? Rather than observe play for a bit and then make a blanket statement about an opponent's style?

The reason I do it this way is to try and build a large enough dataset against each player, as to account for days when maybe he's just loose, or particularly tight, or even on tilt.

The only problem with it is having to read through more notes than I would do if I simply input 'moron'.

Any advice?

Don't write notes per hand, I usually like to make notes by patterns I see in players over a longer time than just one hand. One hand is just one hand, but if you see a pattern then its something you can take advantage of in the future when you see the player again.

This is the one Chuckts uses!


Notice anything out of place? Neither did I at first. But again, I used my imaging software to get a close up and guess what I see?

At the bottom of the sites home page is usually a bunch of icons. One of them tells about their shuffling program. I have seen where the hand is established before the cards are delt and I've seen where each card is generated after betting.

As for security online poker sites are subject to standards that are even stricter than the Nevada Gaming Laws. Enforcement might be tough but I'm sure the popular sites are secure. One of those icons should link to what agency oversee's security as well.

If anyone has to Cheat they shouldnt be playing, and they cant be a good player,, if i cant win on my own, then thats my problem, but to cheat> thats the Lowest Scum on the earth, buck

I agree that online poker sites are making WAY too much money to jeopardize it for some cheating. I just laugh when I hear people say "only on this site". Remember, the site doesn't care who wins, a long as the table stays playing. If they did anything to upset players, they would risk losing them.

I have to remind myself that the fish that got me today payed me off the other 10 times I played someone like him.

They gotta win once in a while otherwise they won't play anymore. I read a good article in Cardplayer about abuse.. why knock their play? They are our bread and butter.

Workingdog

I agree... Without fish like them making these calls sustaining a bankroll can become much more difficult.

Agreed on the "only on this site" thing. I play or have played at so many different sites, and its always "Only at Bodog", "Another Party Suckout", etc. People just dont realize that 72 offsuit is going to beat Pocket Aces 11 or 12 percent of the time. Just the nature of the game. As Helmuth said, "If it wasnt for luck, I'd win every hand."

see other players holecards Bollocks, you will see this statement a lot if you are looking for cheating software.The people selling this software are just playing on your greed and i imagine they must make a tidy profit from all the SUCKERS that buy it from them...

Wow... didn't take long for an advertisement to popup...

If someone really could make this software why would they sell it? It would be much more profitable to use it themselves and make themselves a huge profit. Selling it would just allow sites to find out about it and stop it from working. Pokerrng is just a scam some moron made in order to take your money because he is banking on the greed of people.

Bingo! Why play poker when I can get a sucker to just hand me their money!

"YEh i've wondered that too. For example, if last to act takes a second longer to call, does that affect the next community card? "

stars rng is based on mouse movements of the players at your table prior to when the hand is delt. after it is started being delt, the software already knows all of the cards.

lets get some one to hack one of these programs then share it with the class lol

True. There'll always be this element. Played a tourney on Titan this evening. One hand I got pocket A's and got suckered out by two pair on the river. The very next hand I got 7 4 off in the BB and checked it. The flop came 7 7 4. Sometimes you just hit these crazy cards, get lucky and smile. Sometimes someone else gets them and it's the end of the world as we know it. S**t happens!!!

i dunno, my husband and i discussed it and he thinks that he is sure that its a possibility but the security of the popular sites are so strong. ... but watch out for the booty sites. who knows.....

Poker sites take a rake. They have no reason to cheat.

Cheatnig doesn't exist due to the algorithms and encryption. What's important to remember is that they can be cracked yes, but due to the high amount of data encryption (128 bit i think) it would take approximately 10 million years to do so! We studied this in a forensics computing module at university.

Oh sorry, 10 million years and a super super super computer with like 10000 processors

So yes it can be cracked is the answer.

No it won't be though...

"Can" doesnt mean it will

you may believe the poker companies aren't cheating you, but surely there is collusion between individuals and people playing on multiple user names at the tables to push people around...and illegal bots that require no assistance from an actual person during play.

I trully believe that all of poker sites cheat on us, and that they put so called " shills" to play for them.
You usually wont recognize them but you will probably see them in action.
WHen hand after hand someone with name like " joe1234" or "mlk1234" etc... get hand after hand with BS cards and what you would not play in a milion of years, then you get frustrated when shortstacked and go all in trying to double up and to stay afloat and donk win, then of course you get frustrated and think about a million things and online poker and B&M.
One more thing, it's a billion dolars business and why they will not take a bigger piece of pie, it's a money baby.

If I would be in there shoes, I would have done same thing, and hire a bunch of shills from some country overseas and let them play so they can see other cards, etc...

Do I still play online???
Yes I do and will play online for long time.
Do I will take my chances??
Yes I will.
Do I care about them??
Hell no.
Can I make some money of it??
Yes, of course.
Not on freerolls, lol.
But love freerolls, love free money.
Love poker, playing, chating and making someone nervous at the table, etc...
love it.


See ya'll at the tables on Bodog, Pokerstars, Fulltilt, Pitbullpoker, UltimateBet, etc....

Why not???

this is not directed at you buck. but if you feel that cheating is the best solution for you then by all means, my door is open, just bring your software over for a live game.
I think this horse has been beaten to death over the past few months and this thread should be deleted.

Buck didn't say cheating is a solution?!?!?!

Think you need to read more shinedown

I believe that sometimes these joe1234 (note: NOT pokerPete3435 ) etc. are actually illegeal "bots"...they play very predictably based on position and the betting occurring in front of them as well as their hole cards....I've "bet like I had pocket aces" one time on Titan and made it fold...I then showed my low cards off suit no pair.... nothing...not even a "you #$%%^^&$$$$ donkey!!!".. no difference in play vs. me or anything

If you suspect a "bot" is at your table (i.e. they never show unless called, always raise from dealer spot if everyone limps in, never chat, etc.) chat to everyone at the table to "sit out a few hands", if everyone agrees, the bots move on to another table.

Some sites offer "rake back" programs for regular players...you have to agree to start a table when asked, play so many hands/rake amount per week etc...you still have to bankroll yourself and still lose/win your own money, but if your good and play alot, I guess it can pay off... SOMEDAY maybe I'll be good enough to try...but until then...I guess I'll just have to feed them

I do agree with you buddy.

I know for fact that they have programs like winholdem to play bots instead of you and they can play for hours long.
Now, the catch is if you are good programer and good in poker, so you can write your own script and then let the 2 pc's play for you, then you may have win something.
If you have a bad script, you will lose money.

About those programs to see anybody's hole cards, that's just a urban mit, I don't believe that program can break their encryption and see anyone but their own cards.

If you find program that can do that, send me a copy, would b e more than glad to try it out.
lol

Until then, play good, play hard and don't lose it at once.


Sincerely,

Dino

I've also gotta wonder about the OP....Did the guy who won with 3 4s win the hand before?? Or even 2 hands in a row before?? Often times if I win a hand, I'll call the next hand just because.

I'm no computer geek or anything and I'm not sure about cheating software wether or not it's possible to use. Today, however I was
playing online and another player asked if anyone else at the table could see the next flop before it was dealt. He claimed he could see it in the dealer tray before the deal. No one, including me believed him and then he said "Then why would I make this bet?" and he went all in. He held 2-3 offsuit and when the flop came he tripped his 3's. Was that just a coincidence or could he really see them?
Just looking for answers. I love to play online, but I don't like the idea of just giving my money away. I don't know anything at all about programming so I don't know if it's possible. Could someone please answer this for me.

Thanks,
Creolis

well i have heard of seeing the other players hole cards but nothing else, i just don't beleive the community cards before they come i mean the poker software is pretty up too date anywhere i honestly don't think this is possible>>

Companies have security flaws that are found and exploited all of the time. Example: Internet Explorer, myspace...etc. I would say it is definitely possible if you're a genius programmer/hacker with some inspiration after being crapped on by runner runner.

like many say, i really doubt if someone made this they'd sell it...specially on an open market cuz im sure the major gaming sites hav looked into this and checked em out and would take care of them haha. i wouldnt worry bout it. jus wait for that guy to get burnt.