Chasing draws and giving up on the turn

#1 10th February 2011, 10:41 AM

So, I was thinking about this. Most of the time I have a FD or a SD, I will call up to a pot-sized bet, maybe a little bit more with a SD and a deep stacked opponent.

On the, flop my chances of making the flush or straight by the river are approximately 1:2, right. Right, but that's considering I see both the turn and the river. Which is often times not the case. Very often I call a big bet on the flop and when I miss the turn I simply give up and fold when faced with a decent-sized bet.

And this is, I think, a big leak in my game. Because, if I'm doing this most of the time, then my odds of hitting my flush or straight are not 1:2, like it would be with 2 cards to come, but more like 1:4. What this means is I don't have the correct odds to call a pot-sized bet, not even close.

Am I wrong in my assumptions, or am I playing the draws wrong?

#2 10th February 2011, 7:33 PM

I'll be honest...I get burned more often than not chasing down draws. I firmly believe that you need the correct pots odds in order to play the hand. So if they're doing a pot size bet, especially at the turn, there is no way you should be playing...it goes into the muck!

#3 10th February 2011, 7:40 PM

I think you need to re-think your logic. Your odds of hitting the flush or straight are less than 1:2 even considering that you are going to see the turn and the river. If you have both a straight and a flush draw, then you are correct in your thinking. If they are betting too large on the flop, and you only have a straight or flush draw, it is very likely you are not getting the right odds and should fold. If you do get to the turn, your odds of hitting are a lot less and you should fold to a decent-sized bet. In conclusion, you are wrong in your assumptions and the way you are playing the draws is wrong.

#4 10th February 2011, 7:42 PM

Chasing can be the worst thing to do in a game.
Unless you know that your opponent is EXTREMELY loose and likes to bluff
and even then your pot odds probably won't be worth it.

If you are chasing after you see the flop you need to be aggressive (Semi-bluff)
An open ended SD or FD can be worth a bet but if are OOP and have to respond to a raise
then you either re-raise, if you feel comfortable with your remaining stack
or it's time to fold.

#5 10th February 2011, 8:44 PM

Flush Draw - Turn and River - 34%
Open ended Straight Draw - turn and River - 31%

Flush and OE Straight Draw - Turn and River - 54%

I can usually get away from this, but I also am really tempted to go after sometimes also, usually to my detriment. The hard thing is even with correct pot odds, it can still hurt you in the end if you miss. That is what gets me sometimes.

#6 10th February 2011, 9:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweepnet

Flush Draw - Turn and River - 34%
Open ended Straight Draw - turn and River - 31%

Flush and OE Straight Draw - Turn and River - 54%

I can usually get away from this, but I also am really tempted to go after sometimes also, usually to my detriment. The hard thing is even with correct pot odds, it can still hurt you in the end if you miss. That is what gets me sometimes.

Yeah, I guess I should play it for absolute value, i.e., if someone shoves the flop and I have correct pot odds, then I call. Otherwise, unless I'm the aggressor in the hand, I'm folding it.

But I'll definitely have to work on this. I'm glad I even found a leak in my game

#7 11th February 2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dogmeat

So, I was thinking about this. Most of the time I have a FD or a SD, I will call up to a pot-sized bet, maybe a little bit more with a SD and a deep stacked opponent.

On the, flop my chances of making the flush or straight by the river are approximately 1:2, right. Right, but that's considering I see both the turn and the river. Which is often times not the case. Very often I call a big bet on the flop and when I miss the turn I simply give up and fold when faced with a decent-sized bet.

And this is, I think, a big leak in my game. Because, if I'm doing this most of the time, then my odds of hitting my flush or straight are not 1:2, like it would be with 2 cards to come, but more like 1:4. What this means is I don't have the correct odds to call a pot-sized bet, not even close.

Am I wrong in my assumptions, or am I playing the draws wrong?

If your just calling draws alot of the time you are playing the draws wrong.Semi bluffs are your friend,picking up pots with out going to showdown =money.

#8 11th February 2011, 5:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dogmeat

So, I was thinking about this. Most of the time I have a FD or a SD, I will call up to a pot-sized bet, maybe a little bit more with a SD and a deep stacked opponent.

On the, flop my chances of making the flush or straight by the river are approximately 1:2, right. Right, but that's considering I see both the turn and the river. Which is often times not the case. Very often I call a big bet on the flop and when I miss the turn I simply give up and fold when faced with a decent-sized bet.

And this is, I think, a big leak in my game. Because, if I'm doing this most of the time, then my odds of hitting my flush or straight are not 1:2, like it would be with 2 cards to come, but more like 1:4. What this means is I don't have the correct odds to call a pot-sized bet, not even close.

Am I wrong in my assumptions, or am I playing the draws wrong?

Your playing the draws wrong, when you say your calling im assuming you mean you are just checking your draws when you are first to act then calling any subsequent raise from your opponent after that, most play after the flop is raise or be raised, you dont have to hit your draw to win the hand you can win by being the first to raise, and if you are called or raised after that you will have a lot more information about your opponents hand and be in a position to act accordingly, also this play will win you a lot more big pots if you then hit your draw on the turn, hope this helps

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