Casual fan curious

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dfb1904

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(I never hear or read anything about this. In fact I've googled it a few times and can find nothing. Maybe it's old news, but I'd still think that I'd hear some kind of mention of it.)

Has poker being shown on tv somewhat compromised the game for the professionals? What I mean is, wasn't one of the main facets of poker that "you have to pay to see 'em"?

Now everyone's cards are being shown to the world. So even though player A doesn't know if player B is bluffing at the time, he's going to find out later when he watches the replay.

Doesn't this expose players' bluffing tendencies? Do players watch as many televised games as possible and take notes about future opponents' likelihood of bluffing?

And although my general thought was: oh well, it's still equal footing for everybody, I'm beginning to wonder. Wouldn't players who've been on tv more be at a disadvantage?

I suppose the better players are talented enough to adapt to the fact that their face-down cards can never remain a secret. And they will be careful not to fall into habits. But hasn't that not only changed bluffing but also the essence of the game?
 
Staneff

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Usually most pro players have played hundred of games together and they know how everyone plays and have their own reads on each other. Their experience is on the table, not on the tv watching some1.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Yes and no - this was actually a huge concern for a number of players, particularly ones from the "old school", back when hole card cameras and televised poker were first introduced.

The reality is though that in most cases, if you're good enough to be playing on TV for long enough for other players to be getting a read on how you're playing, then you're probably also good enough to be able to adjust your game based on that knowledge. Or you've got enough money that you just don't care :p
 
S3mper

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The other side of it is players can do something that they weren't able to do before and that is they can pick up tells on themselves and correct them or if they are good enough and their opponents are good enough use it to level them.
 
rifflemao

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The reality is though that in most cases, if you're good enough to be playing on TV for long enough for other players to be getting a read on how you're playing, then you're probably also good enough to be able to adjust your game based on that knowledge.

^yep

I think it's common for railbirds at the November 9 to watch the delayed broadcast on their phones etc and give info to their player\horse. I'm not a fan of that reality, but the lipstick cams make it exciting for the home audiences.

I like footage where they delay showing one person's cards until the end of the hand so you can range them and see if you were close.
 
D

dfb1904

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Yes and no - this was actually a huge concern for a number of players, particularly ones from the "old school", back when hole card cameras and televised poker were first introduced.

The reality is though that in most cases, if you're good enough to be playing on TV for long enough for other players to be getting a read on how you're playing, then you're probably also good enough to be able to adjust your game based on that knowledge. Or you've got enough money that you just don't care :p

The other side of it is players can do something that they weren't able to do before and that is they can pick up tells on themselves and correct them or if they are good enough and their opponents are good enough use it to level them.

^yep

I think it's common for railbirds at the November 9 to watch the delayed broadcast on their phones etc and give info to their player\horse. I'm not a fan of that reality, but the lipstick cams make it exciting for the home audiences.

I like footage where they delay showing one person's cards until the end of the hand so you can range them and see if you were close.

I appreciate the answers. The railbirds' tendencies that rifflemao mentioned seem (at least a little) unethical, but I wouldn't blame a player for poring over as much past footage as possible to try to know his opponents.

To me, television takes away some of the mystique, as the great players of the past had to live with the fact that they never knew if they had folded for a good reason or not. But then again, maybe some of them liked it that way. After all, today's players are stuck knowing when they blew it.

I guess either way you look at, whether the cards are kept secret or not, a poker player's life is never easy.
 
OzExorcist

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The railbirds' tendencies that rifflemao mentioned seem (at least a little) unethical, but I wouldn't blame a player for poring over as much past footage as possible to try to know his opponents.

Yeah - that's an awkward one, but it's one that's pretty much exclusive to the wsop (and in particular the Main Event). I don't think there's any other tournament in the world where the final table happens months after the rest of the tournament, giving all the player the opportunity to watch footage of their opponents and study up on them, and that also webcasts the tournament on a 15-minute delay so railbirds can tell players what their opponents were holding 15 minutes ago.

That said, it's a level playing field in that all participants have the same opportunity to engage in those practices. So it's just a quirk you need to adapt to if you want to play at that particular high level.
 
S3mper

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^^ + I believe that you have to sign a contract when you register for these tournaments that say they can reveal your hole cards and use your name and likeness.

When I played in the MSPT I had to sign a contract stating the above + a ton of other stuff
 
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