Cash games - What is 1 BB per hour

#1 14th January 2008, 10:24 PM

Hi all, I know this may seem like a really stupid question but it doesn't make sense t me.

People say that your goal is cash games should be to make 1 BB per hour. So does this mean if i am playing .01/.02 NL and i've bought in for $1 my goal should be to make .02c per hour? That doesn't seem like a very good return. Is this what it means or am i mis-understanding it?

#2 14th January 2008, 10:45 PM

That's exactly what it means. Usually it actually alludes to a big bet as opposed to a big blind, so in your example 1BB/hr would mean making 4c/hr. That's by no means a good winrate for 2nl, but up in the nosebleed stakes it would be considered as a solid winrate.

The lower you go, the higher your winrate should be if you're 'good', and at higher limits the skill edges are so small that even one BB/100hands is considered crushing the game.

fwiw it's actually usually referred to as BB/100 hands too.

#3 14th January 2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by custo80

Hi all, I know this may seem like a really stupid question but it doesn't make sense t me.

People say that your goal is cash games should be to make 1 BB per hour. So does this mean if i am playing .01/.02 NL and i've bought in for $1 my goal should be to make .02c per hour? That doesn't seem like a very good return. Is this what it means or am i mis-understanding it?

I believe it's "one big pot per hour" not "one big blind per hour".

#4 14th January 2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

I believe it's "one big pot per hour" not "one big blind per hour".

And you would be wrong. Chuck hit it in his post right above you.

Also good to know is that BB/hour or BB/100 hands is Big Bets (which is used to track Limit poker) and bb/hour or bb/100 hands is Big Blinds (which is used to track PL and NL games).

#5 14th January 2008, 11:02 PM

The concept of one bb/100 hands seems to seem like way too little of a profit. If I were to go up to the $100/$200 table, profiting $200 would be considered a good profit? I dont really understand this concept. If I were to start out witha 100bb stack, a good profit would be winning 50bbs. Maybe I am not understanding what this concept really means?

#6 14th January 2008, 11:03 PM

Is wanting to earn 1bb/hour practical thinking in the short term (read: at the table), or should this only cross your mind when looking at stats that cover a long period of time? It just seems like unnecessary stress to put on yourself while playing.

#7 14th January 2008, 11:07 PM

If I am understanding then at a $100/$200 NL table after 100 hands you should be up $200 or more; that is for a 1bb/100 win rate. if you are up $400 after 100 hands then your win rate is 2bb/100 and so on. how many hand that is over the course of I don't know. Does it take 1000 hands to get a reasonable idea of ones win rate or 10k hand?

#8 14th January 2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalburrito24

The concept of one bb/100 hands seems to seem like way too little of a profit. If I were to go up to the $100/$200 table, profiting $200 would be considered a good profit? I dont really understand this concept. If I were to start out witha 100bb stack, a good profit would be winning 50bbs. Maybe I am not understanding what this concept really means?

That's exactly what it means - just what I said before.

At a table with stakes that high, a winrate of that magnitude over the long term would mean $200/100 hands, and if you're playing 100 hands per hour, that means you're making $200/hr for that single table. Add in another and you're up to $400/hr. 8-table and you're at $1600/hr.

Still not enough for you?

There isn't a person in the world who could make 50BB/100 over the long run at those stakes without astronomical luck.

To put it into perspective, the widely-accepted maximum winrate for say 50nl is around 10BB/100hands now.

#9 14th January 2008, 11:18 PM

^^^^
ChuckTs=God.
Or very close to it.
Thanks Chuck, it just seemed like way too little money to be making an hour, but now that you gave me that other perspective, that is a lot of money and a great profit.

#10 14th January 2008, 11:25 PM

Keep in mind that not all sessions will be winning sessions. The 1bb/100 hours or hands or w.e. is an indication that you are at least a winning player. There will be sessions/streaks where you will do much better, but many more sessions/streaks where you will be on the losing end of the stick.

Over a longer time 1bb, tho not glamorous at micro/low stakes, could really be a bundle at the bigger stakes.

#11 14th January 2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckTs

That's exactly what it means - just what I said before.

At a table with stakes that high, a winrate of that magnitude over the long term would mean $200/100 hands, and if you're playing 100 hands per hour, that means you're making $200/hr for that single table. Add in another and you're up to $400/hr. 8-table and you're at $1600/hr.

Still not enough for you?

There isn't a person in the world who could make 50BB/100 over the long run at those stakes without astronomical luck.

To put it into perspective, the widely-accepted maximum winrate for say 50nl is around 10BB/100hands now.

10BB/100 hands ,,,,,,,,Nice over 10 BB/ 100 hands is my goal when I am moving up in stakes to NL 50 within a weak..

#12 14th January 2008, 11:48 PM

Well don't get your hopes up because you most probably won't be able to achieve that. Set your goal to be a winning player, then start eyeing ways to improve your winrate. Any positive winrate is a good winrate

#13 15th January 2008, 2:39 AM

ok well at the moment im buying in for $5 on a .01 .02. What should i aim for and consider that a good win rate, per hour or per 100 hands?

As an example its not un-common for me to play for about 45mins and end with $1 profit. is that good?

#14 15th January 2008, 3:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by custo80

ok well at the moment im buying in for $5 on a .01 .02. What should i aim for and consider that a good win rate, per hour or per 100 hands?

As an example its not un-common for me to play for about 45mins and end with $1 profit. is that good?

This:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckTs

Set your goal to be a winning player, then start eyeing ways to improve your winrate. Any positive winrate is a good winrate

$1 for 45 minutes of work is fine. Err I mean fine for a 1c/2c poker player

#15 15th January 2008, 3:16 AM

If you make this kind of profit, even if you're starting at the micro-stakes your profit is going up exponentially.

#16 15th January 2008, 3:49 AM

Obviously if you are playing at .01/.02 stakes you are only playing to have fun and to learn the game. The fact that you are making any profit at all while you are learning or just wasting some time is good. As some other people have said it might be better to be using BB/100 hands instead of BB/hr. I'm pretty sure you are making 25BB in 45 minutes if you make a dollar at your limits so that is pretty good.

So far after 2,300 hands at .05/.10 NL I am at 24.85 BB/100 hands which I don't really expect to stay at but the opposition is pretty weak.

#17 15th January 2008, 4:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rossta

If you make this kind of profit, even if you're starting at the micro-stakes your profit is going up exponentially.

Not quite.

#18 15th January 2008, 5:19 AM

ok, and finally lets say i was playing $1/$2 buying in for $200, what would be considered a good return?

#19 15th January 2008, 5:47 AM

Not sure exactly, but again any winrate at that level would be good. I'd say 4BB/100 would be doing great, anything above is killer.

If you want to get a good idea, just google 'maximum expected winrate 200nl' or something, and substitute whatever stake you want to search for 200nl.

#20 15th January 2008, 6:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalburrito24

^^^^
ChuckTs=God.
Or very close to it.
Thanks Chuck, it just seemed like way too little money to be making an hour, but now that you gave me that other perspective, that is a lot of money and a great profit.

seriously, we take CT for granted. it's amazing how much i've learned from reading his posts. he does it without effort and with out concern for himself. for the good of the forum. Thanks CT!

#21 15th January 2008, 10:59 AM

Its harder to make profit on NL 2 than on NL 20

If you profit on that stake you will profit on higher stakes...
Atleast NL 20

#22 15th January 2008, 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefer77

seriously, we take CT for granted. it's amazing how much i've learned from reading his posts. he does it without effort and with out concern for himself. for the good of the forum. Thanks CT!

<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

#23 16th January 2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckTs

Well don't get your hopes up because you most probably won't be able to achieve that. Set your goal to be a winning player, then start eyeing ways to improve your winrate. Any positive winrate is a good winrate

I now..... But that is my goal when I go up in stakes.........

I dont think the level on NL 50 is any harder than NL 20 either.

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