This Can't Be Healthy!

I was thinking about all the negative emotions that poker creates on a minute to minute bases. Stress from pocket aces cracked by river trips, nervousness when all-in with the villain having a flush draw, and depression from losses. Do you think poker could lead to minor mental problems?

Or maybe you need to have minor mental problems to play poker well?

jk. One of the key things you can do to improve as a poker player is to understand why these things cause stress - more specifically, why it shouldn't cause stress. I can't personally eliminate ALL the stress, but I've gotten a lot better at understanding it.

You have to take steps to manage the emotions. Have a huge BR to manage the swings, force yourself to think in chips instead of dollars, and remind yourself that it's a long, long, long run and not a sprint.

Very interesting topic. I think the key word in the equation is balance. You must balance your life in a way which allows all of that negative energy to escape through a positive form. This is the only way to deal/cope long term with the feelings you describe....

OR

You must change the very feelings you are feeling. This would require some form of cognitive therapy (maybe not professionally), but it would take massive effort on your part to change your very thought process (intake) during your poker sessions. It may also help your results to consider each hand in a more objective form. The "distance" from the results of your game could help you evaluate your play and manage your emotional swings. Sometimes we also feel very strong negative feelings because we are risking TOO MUCH on your pocket aces holding up etc. So maintain strong BRing management as well.

Good Luck,
Stix

Winning once in a while has a soothing effect aswell .

I think this is one area where the multitablers have an advantage over the single table players. Multitablers don't have time to dwell on bad results because there is always another hand on another table that requires their attention.

Depression from losses is a different issue. You can't win every time and losing streaks are part of the game. If losing depresses you because you can't afford the losses, you shouldn't be playing. If losing depresses you because it hurts your ego, get over it or stop playing.

Also, being afraid to lose makes it impossible to be a winner. There's a fantastic quote from the movie "Searching for Bobby Fischer" that I've never forgotten. It's a movie about child chess prodigy Josh Waitzkin. This quote is said to Josh by his street-smart Central-Park-playing chess buddy Vinnie (Laurence Fishburne) about Josh's chess coach Bruce (Ben Kingsley):

"He didn't teach you how to win, he taught you how not to lose. That's nothing to be proud of. You're playing not to lose, Josh. You've got to risk losing. You've got to risk everything. You've got to go to the edge of defeat. That's where you want to be, boy - on the edge of defeat."

All the above IMHO.

I think this is why so many pros become drug addicts or did in the past.
Because dealing with bad beats and downswings is extremely stressful, more so than most jobs.

Some of the feelings you describe might show you have an aversion to risk. I agree a risk averse personality would have a more difficult time coping with the variance in poker. I also believe this is why many professional poker players also gamble so much. It helps the enjoyment of poker if you enjoy the thrill of the risk.

Anytime there is a loss of money or "bad luck" happening - it's shitty.

I is very frustrating and I have to admit that I use to get very angry when I reraised someone after I hit a str8 or trips and they just pushed allin without hesitation, only to draw out with a flush. It has taken me a few years, but I no longer get that mad. I figure if they were willing to risk their whole tournament or that many chips, then it is ok with me. Of course, when you are on the final table it is a little harder to swallow. You figuree that by then the people that just push in on the draws have been eliminated.
Remember it is a game of skill and luck. People that push all in on the draws are usually bad players that get lucky some times. So just put a note on them and wait until the next time you run into them.
I have to admit that I really like the person that wants to tell you how bad you are and what you should have done (as you take their chips). I actually make a few cheep bad calls to set them up tfor the kill when I have a hand and they have a martginal hand.

I think some persons can have minor mental problems cos of poker but not more likely than having it cos work/sport/betting etc. stress.

Hmmmm.

You know what I noticed? (now I know nothing about your game, so it's obvious this is not a comment on the quality of your play).

Early in my career, my game was WAY worse than it is now, and the game was WAY more stressful.

It didn't take me long to realize the stress was a result of playing hands I shouldn't have played putting me in stressful situations I shouldn't be in.

fwiw.

I think it's good in that it has taught me to not get as angry about things out of my control.

hahahaha, I think poker puts the emotion in a really different perspective, it's everything really maximized
when you loose or you make a bad call or a good call and looses it drives you crazy, but when you play it right and win, omg is the best feeling ever
It's just a how much winning and losing are you making?

Nope you learn to live it, just look at Mike Mat.. and he's pal Phil Hel.. they are absolutly as normal and stress less and relaxed as everyone elses.

And by the way who has a "normal" day job with bo stress or negative emotions ??

You can't really compare the normal day job with the kinda stress those guys go through... IMO. For instance, there's a reason it is televised. If they televised my day job there'd be a renewed interest in going outside! The drama, the rise and fall is part of their job, but not at all normal.

Stix

I use to be like that in hold'em. Now I started Omaha, and bad beats are just so common, it's really helped my tilt problem. Even top set isn't safe in Omaha, now when I go back to hold'em the bad beats seem pretty minor. Sets getting cracked really doesn't faze me.

I've had my nut flushes lose to straight flushes...

I know it seems like Bankroll management is a catch all to some of these topics. However, I dont sweat the badbeats as much now that I'm playing within my bankroll.In the past I'd go braindead and move up over my head and bankroll and yes really sweat and stress the badbeats. But staying in games you belong in helps alleviate some of that worry.

Some days you wish you hadn't woken up because it's as if the whole world was against you!Impossible calls by imbecile players who keep and i repeat keep getting runner runner straight or flush while your holding your oh so waited for trips for nothing!
Problem is you force yourself to play good and you do but you keep on losing so after a whole day you go mad and you lose much much more just to find that about half or more of your bankroll has gone missing...
Then you go eat something or watch a movie to not feel bad

Poker is also gambling, though we try not to admit it. Isn't gambling more or less famous for creating mental anguish?

At last, I understand the source of my weight problem.

poker is the cause of many problems.

but only to those who cannot afford to play.

ill admit i def have played underolled alot and its caused me massive amounts of stress and mental anguish.... but eventually you get to the point where you can successfully control your mental state and the bad beats etc become easy to handle.

usually if im feeling stressed ill just light one up and take a break, smoking a little ganja can help when my day can be +$1000 or -$500 you can only take the swings as they come, ride it out and persevere

I think everything is unheathy. Smoking, booze and woman lol. Poker is just unheathy. I agree that poker is bad for people who can't afford to play and play over their limits

the more i play, the more i learn how to control stress and how to stop when i am having a bad day or a downswing. from this point of view poker has actually helped me in my life, made me more patient.

I think it's the huge swings from highs to lows that make the game so exciting and attractive to a lot of people. I know the few tournaments I've won have been some of the proudest and happiest moments of my life, and there's nothing like raking in a huge pot at a cash table (especially live when it takes you like 2 or 3 hands to finish stacking your chips... yes, that long! wound up in a 4 way all in with AK all of us with 100+ BB board AA3K2 ) and it's those kind of wins that help to balance things I guess. Like when you bubble in a big tourney, or have your flopped monster cracked by runner runner BS again and again, I get in a really shitty mood after that... doesn't take long for me to get over it though, that's poker.

edit: before ppl call me an idiot for putting 100BB in preflop with AK, I had been playing for hours, folding folding folding. ridiculously card dead. I get AKs utg and raise then it gets called then 3bet and 4bet in front of me so I just said F**K it and shoved. Was actually racing against QQ TT and 77.

Congrats on the 4 way all-in win holding the AKs ecomdan. I'm yet to play in any live poker, i'm not depositing anymore on any sites because I get tired of bad beats(AA cracked, runner runner BS, one outers, and rivers).

Interesting thread, I still get angry when I lose a big portion of my BR because of a bad beat. I use to stress out a lot and a bit depressed from going busto but now I know that its poker and that most players are losing players. I still don't see the chips as chips yet but as money, thats why I might not play my greatest poker.

Im with Tom on this one. there is literally nothing in life that isn't perceived to be unhealthy to someone. So I just rationalize that life is just a combination of roughly 42,048,000 minutes, given an 80 year lifespan and about 24,703,200 of mine are already gone. Now if I have only 17,344,800 minutes left, give or take, by god Im going to enjoy them.

Attached Images

Picture 35.jpg (463.1 KB, 117 views)

^^^All above are the keys imo and valid points.

There are some important steps one must take in order to learn to control the extremes in emotions that poker can deal to you. Those extreme ups and downs will kill your game and mess with your mind.

I believe it's a valuable life lesson to go through these extremes and learn how to cope/deal/control it.

What I have learned to control my emotions so they aren't extreme, but mild reactions to little reaction to no reactions, depending on many factors:

1. Don't play for more than you can afford to lose. If you play scared you can't play the game the way it was meant to be played. You'll allow your emotions to control your actions because you have a vested interest in not losing the money you can't afford to lose.

2. Learn the odds. All of them. The better you understand what your odds are, what your opponents odds are then the better you will be able to control your emotions when your opponent hits that flush on the river cracking your flopped set because you realize he not only had more outs than you to make his hand but had the proper odds to make the call. You'll find yourself saying "I would have done the same thing in his shoes" when you lose instead of concentrating on the fact that you lost.

3. Learn the game better. Once you have a better understanding of the game, hands played and from what positions, opponents styles, stack sizes, etc; the less your emotions will come into play. You'll be able to better understand why the button called the 3x bb pfr with 67su as he was getting 6:1 to make the call by the time it got around to him and not be so upset when your AA gets cracked by him with that hand. You'll be able to better understand why the chip leader called your all in preflop from the bb with 73os because he was getting 4:1 to make the call with atc. You'll be able to better understand why the player who appears to be a bully at your cash table is always picking on your blinds because you don't defend them, you're playing the cards instead of the players. You get the idea..

4. Don't get married to your hands. When you raise utg with QQ and the nit in the bb calls and he leads into you on an A high wet flop, learn to give it up. Or if you have JJ and the flop is 10 9 7 - all diamonds and your Jacks are black and you've got two opponents betting the pot before it gets to you - don't get married to your over pair, learn to give it up.

So basically, emotions will be less extreme if you learn the game better and understand why people do what they do. Of course there is just no explanation for some of the plays & idiots out there, but still, learn the game better, learn odds, learn outs, learn position, learn stack sizes, learn styles, learn bankroll management etc;

Do the above and not only will your emotions be less affected by the game, but you'll find the balance, you'll improve your game and feel more confident.

That's 1 hard core baby. Yeaaahhhhhh. Damm wish I was that cool at his age lol jk

^^^LMAO @ the pic!!! I LOVE it!!! You have my kind of sense of humor Chris!!!

As for everything is bad for you comments? Meh...
I mostly agree with Chris on this. I had a near death experience once and let me tell you something, it changes your whole outlook on life! Life is for the living! What's the point if you don't go for it, take some risks, follow your dreams? All you'll end up doing is playing the "what if" game in your old age and having a lot of regrets! I don't want that!!!

If my lifestyle of smoking & drinking & eating not always healthy causes me to lose a few years, BUT, my years are full of adventure, fantastic memories & tales, I've made a difference in many peoples lives, have brought joy & happiness to others, if I can go to my grave without regrets or wondering "what if I had done this or that instead?" then by golly I've lived a very full life no matter what age I die and I would much rather die happy, fulfilled, completed with joy in my heart than to say I lived to be 95 and only "existed" in life instead of "Lived" life!

Life is too damned short to sweat the small stuff, to be unhappy, to not follow your dreams, take risks, go for broke!

Yes, absolutely! The kind that turns into anger and possibly addiction to gambling making it not so fun to play! But until I get to that point I will play every day!

I think all poker players who play for any substantial stakes are all messed up in the head in some way shape or form.

I think that's crazy talk! It is a competitive endeavor like sports or games. Let's just say some people that play probably already have mental disorders.

If poker gets to the stage where it affects somebody mentally then I think they should stop playing. Everybody should be playing at a bankroll level they can afford and there if they lose it should not be a problem. I know this ideal does not always apply but nonetheless this is how it should be.

^ this

Great advice Stormraven.