Calling members of CC for SNG help!

I can't figure out whats going on and it's doing my head in.

Background: I play 4 SnG's @ pokerstars at the same time. The absolute minimum goal or worst case scenario is: 2 losses, 1 3rd finish and 1 2nd finish. Regardless of the buy-in this method guarantees a profit, not the biggest profit but a profit none the less.

I don't play a SnG unless I have a minimum of 54 buy-ins for that game.

With my current BR, I can afford to play the 9 people $6.50 @ stars. Prior to this I was playing the 10 people $3.40.

Below you will see to graphs. The first graph are my results of my $3.40 games and secondly the $6.50.

My question, amongst my frustration, why the hell are these results so different. Surely the competition cant be that different from a $3 game to a $6 game? Or am I wrong?

I approach and play the $3 and $6 game exactly the same way which is a rather textbook way but it seems to work, at least at the $3 game anyway.

CC members, should I be playing the $6 any different to the $3 game, or should I treat the $6 with more respect and only play 1 at a time which will means I pay more attention to betting patters and not playing the cards only.

As always, your feedback and opinions are all welcomed and appreciated.

Regards
Custo

Attached Images

stars$3.GIF (4.5 KB, 8 views)

stars$6.GIF (4.9 KB, 8 views)

Try playing one at a time for a while until you get a "feel" for them.

I've recently moved from $5 to $10. The biggest diffference I've seen is a lot less aggromorons but far more tight/weak players.

Variance!

Also why 54 buy ins, why not 50?

Plus, I think that may be a little too conservative at that level tbh, and I'm a BR nit.

We can only give guidance based on your stats tbh, Supply some vpip, pfr, af wtsd etc etc, then we can see if there are any leaks in your game.

Unless u are a woman... Don't play more than 2 at a time... You need 2 know the styles of our opponents...

4myself "multitasking is a foreign languange...

G'luck with ur bankroll

Holmstaedt

Varinace as Jaq says, though I started out as a SnG player and it was noticeable that over time a winning game could change in subtle ways that were hard to spot but had a big impact overall.

Perhaps review your basic strategy from the ground up and see if there's anything you are doing that's changed?

If I play 4 games and lose, which can and does unfortunately happen I'll never drop below 50.

I'm some what afraid to admit this but I am not a poker tracker user atm. I had then demo version and it all goes right over my head. If strongly convinced in this thread that poker tracker WILL improve my game, i think I'll be purchasing it this weekend. I just may ask in advance if someone can give me a beginners tour through Poker Tracker, as I couldn't make heads or tails of it

Wow nice profit Custo how long did it take you to get that much money on there??

why don't u try cash games?? i think u've got a bankroll to play 10nl
and it's easier to make money ......

Believe me, I've tried cash games, and my success is greater in SnG's.

I should also add that I have separate BR dependent on the game I play. EG. My SnG BR allows $6 games but my cash game BR is currently allowing for 2NL.

I have 3 separate BR's
1 for Cash games
1 for SnG's
1 for MTT's

If I dominate at one form of poker it doesnt mean i will at another hence if I jump from 2NL upto 50NL from SnG Success I have a large risk of losing a fair amount as my cash game play is currently not that strong.

You can beat the $3 SnG multi tabling like clockwork, but you should try playing just 1 table at $6 until you get the feel of how they play, and see if your profits start to improve. Then you can gradually move up to 2,3 and 4 tables. I had that problem when I used to play 1$ SnG's on Full Tilt and then I jumped up, because the competition was so extremely weak at the 1$ tables, I just thought I could jump right in at the higher stakes. But now I'm a winning player because I single tabled to get a feel.

bumping. (for more feedback)

Ok, I used to play a lot of S&Gs (Turbo and Regular). You are probably on the wrong side of variance right now and it is causing u to play slightly worse than your regular play. Variance in Turbo S&Gs is so high, 100 game streaks where u are breakeven/negative profit is fairly typical. Also, if you are 4-tabling, please invest in PT or HEM, it will seriously improve your game so much.

I was under the impression the poker tracker was more for cash players only and had no real benefit for SnGs or Mtt's, is this incorrect?

Have you thought about playing two $3 and two $6 SNGs concurrently to see if you feel a difference and see different results in the same session at different buy-ins?

Yes, that's incorrect -- it can help with SNGs and MTTs too. You just have to import your tournament results as they don't show up automatically (Poker Tracker automatically tracks the hands but not the results, until you import them). The critical part is going back over the hands you play, especially questionable ones or those that significantly impacted your tournament, and seeing what you could have done differently/better.

That's actually a good idea, thanks roundcat. Can't believe I never thought of it, lol. tyvm

This, and you get a HUD so its easier to tell who the Maniacs/Fish/Rocks are at each of your tables. Playing 4 it would be impossible to get a read on everyone at your tables.

i don't understand what different does the $$, make as long as its' within your BR limits. and if your playing the same you would think you'd get the same results. you can't be playing the same if you recognized a difference in how your opp plays, you must be playing different as a result to adjust to the different opp/types style. it has to be. sng's are a simulation to a final table, no? maybe at the higher $$, they're more abt to play as ifthey're actually already there as a practice run and playing for all the marbles?? (they already got mine ) well i tried, hope you find your answers. and gl on the felt.

On their main website the price is coming up as $89.99 is that correct? I though it was around $50

I feel no diffrence from the 3$ to the 6$ so maby its just varience.

Maby try drop back to the 3$ ones and play 6-8 tables?
that should provied the same profit as playing 4 6$.

Another possiblity maby its in your head? Sounds kinda strange saying that about 6$ buy-in but any chance your playing more scared money in the 6$?

What HUD are people using for their SNG's? Solid poker always wins out, I would play 2 lower limit and 2 higher limit at once like someone had said. See how that goes for awhile.

In the absence of any stats then you need to make sure your following a decent SnG strategy. I have no idea if your following that or not. Only you know that.

Are you LAG, TAG, loose passive, nitty. The only way to find leaks in your game is for you to explain how you play a sng, or even show some HH's.

I agreed 100% $3 & $6 are still micros so the play/competition should be the same imo.

Playing scared? Afraid to admit but that is most likely true. The next step is how do I overcome that?

Well there are a some poker books that focus on the phycolgycal aspect of the game,if heard that Zen and poker is good but never read it.
I just ordered The Poker Mindset and i will let u know if its any good when i start reading it.

One thing that might might be worth a try is not checking your BR status,you know your rolled for the 6$ so just play and not check your status at the end/start of the day(obvs. whanna do that if u hit like 60 non cash streak but u know what i mean).
That way you can focus on playing good poker with out having to worry about geting back over 400$ or the fact your allmost down to 200$, and chasing loses ect.

Someone earlier said VARIANCE, which is all your tables show, and there is nothing statistically meaningful in a sample of a few hundred hands. In other words, two charts with such small samples mean nothing statistically, so any answer as to 'what is wrong here' might equally have to do with your cat.

Same with a few hundred games...

I don't think variance is my problem, I think I'm approaching the games incorrectly and I'm not sure how to fix it.

As Sindri suggested I played 6 $3 games rather than my usual 4 and cashed 4 out of 6 with 2 wins. See more here.

Blog Update.

Does anyone here play and succeed at the $6.50 SnG @ stars? If so what can you recommend?

Thanks

SNG variance is big and this may all mean nothing. Turbo SNG variance is even higher. I was quite profitable when I played those and still had loosing streaks of 15+ games.

One major aspect when moving up in level is that you have less fishes that bust out in the very low blind levels and therefore you have more players in the game when push/fold strategy comes into play, so you need to play it a LOT better. Are you sure you master that part of the game correctly? You should probably check your hand histories with the trial version of SNGWiz.

Don't under estimate variance! It tends to be amplified on the move up. I don't know why...

Maybe, in part due to...

Scared money. When you double your buy-in it is possible even at $3-6. If you are a little intimidated it shows. You must be willing to take risks at least as much at the higher BI. Opponents tend to get more aggressive as you move up the ladder too (even at micros) so you'll get a double whammy. You need to be more aware of who has cards and who is likely to be shoveling money. Playing 4 tables with no Poker Tracker doesn't allow this level of awareness.

1 more question, why turbos? As a profitable player the fast structure works against you.

I get a sense that you are pressing, trying to 4 table in order to build your BR more rapidly while technically staying within guidelines . (Kudos on the BR management BTW) In the OP I got that feeling you are trying to dictate the absolute worst case expectation, when in reality the "poker gods" may have other ideas, like 8th,6th, 4th,4th. Slow down! Try some non-turbos $5.50, less tables . Maybe even take a shot at a $10 and 1 table. Sometimes multi-tabling will serve to make a profitable player into a break-even or losing player. I find 2 tables is a good balance for me, I can pay attention, not get too bored and still cruise the forums.

good luck,
goldog