calculating pot odds, question???

Hi all.

I have had some conflicting advice here so lets c if for once and for all I can put it to bed?

When calculating the pot odds, what do u do, either

1. Pot is 10. I need to put 2 into the pot making the pot 12. My pot odds are 5:1
2. Pot is 10. I need to put 2 into the pot making the pot 12. My pot odds are 6:1

I think it is 1. but someone has told me different. If it is neither, let me know

pot odds = [total pot including bet in front of you] : [amount to call]

so 1. would be right.

Thanks m8

Just to add to that, remember that you pot odds calculation is only based on the amount you have to call on that specific decision. While the pot does include money you've previously put in, that money is not considered on your side of the calculation even in the same betting round (it is part of the pot only). Once the money goes in, it isn't yours anymore and can't be viewed that way.

That may not be totally clear, so here is my short example....

Three players. Pot is $15 and you face a $5 bet with one person behind you to act. Ignoring other considerations for this example and thinking purely pot odds, your pot odds are 3 to 1. You just call making the pot $20. The next player would then be getting 4 to 1 to call. He raises it another $5 (puts $10 in total) making the pot $30 now. The first player now folds and it is back to you facing another $5 bet to call. Since the pot is now $30, your pot odds are 6 to 1. The fact you just put $5 in a moment ago on this betting round is irrelevant. Your pot odds are based on the current size of the pot ($30) and how much you must now call ($5). That's really all I was getting at.

I bring this up though because I had this dicussion recently with someone that insisted his odds were different because the bets and raises were still in the same betting round. This is incorrect. So since it came up, I figured I'd throw it in here as well.

Let me confuse things a little...

Using Jacks example above, lets assume this was post flop. If I am now sitting 4 flushed, at those odds of 6-1, I am justified in calling to the river in hopes of landing that flush.

A question arises then, what if my 4flush has me sitting with the 24s? Are my approx 4-1 flushing odds still valid, or would I have to accomodate the possibility of a higher flush also drawing? and if so, how might that change my odds?

Your odds are your odds to hit whatever it is u r aiming for IMO. So, in the above example u give, you are 19.2% to hit on the turn (about 5:1) if u miss the turn, u r 19.6% (still about 5:1). In an all in situation the turn and river combined your odds of catching are 35% (about 2:1)

So in a limit game u r going to have the odds to chase your flush.

The point u make about the fact u have only 24s is a different matter. Position will come into it. If I hit my flush on the turn I will show I am not bothered and I have hit my flush. I will raise. If I`m reraised I will probably call it down after that. If another one of my suit hits the river and the other guy raises again you will probably have to pay him off. The chances of the other guy sitting with 2 cards of the same suit as u r remote, although not impossible.

So, in summary, u can`t change the pot odds base on your cards. Pot odds are pot odds I`m not an expert, b ut I think what you are talking about is more related to EV/ implied odds question.

Yeah, sort of apple and orange-ish. You only count the cards you've seen when determining your odds to hit. So on the flop there are 47 cards remaining. If there are two spades in your hand and two on the flop, then there are nine spades left to consider. For this purpose, the fact that anyone else could have a spade or two (or could have even folded a spade or what if the dealer burned a spade) is irrelevant. You've SEEN four of them, so there are nine left. SEEN cards are the only thing that affect your odds of drawing. Now, there will be times where you might discount your outs a little for certain more likely holdings for cards that might me counterfitted, but to discount your outs on a FD everytime because someone could have a higher FD would be wrong.

The question about drawing to a flush with 42s with the likelihood that a higher FD is out there is a totally different question (prob for a different thread) as you'll get questions about why you're playing that hand, how it varies on lots of factors, etc.