Building a br instead of donking it away

I would like to take my new winnings and, istead of donking it away playing beyond my bankroll, I would like to try to build it. I know there has been a few threads about it br management, but I'm looking to see if there is any other advice out there. I usually play tourneys but now I would like to start trying some ring games.

I`ll give u an answer based on my experience.

I play MTT mainly. I dabble in SNG`s when I`m bored, and have played ring games.

I feel that the skill needed for different games is massive.

So, as it stands, I refuse to get dragged into ring games. and here is why.

Since April...

• I have made a profit of $1,600 in MTT (not one big hit, its been a steady profit)
• I have made a profit of about $300 in SNG`s (This is after a massive downturn prior to April)
• I have lost $400 playing ring games.

So I made the decision to keep away from ring games and play smaller buyin SNGs.

So, this month I`ve played 32 MTT so far, won 1, 2nd in 2 and cashed in 2 others. Played a few SNG`s and hit a small profit.

But, I`ve kept away from ring games meaning I`m in profit to the tune of $300 for the month - and I have not played that well.

Anyway, my point is, if you find a form or poker or a type you should stick to it until your bankroll gives you some real fun money.

I hope this has given my angle

I was a sng player but made the switch to cash permanently last Dec. Prior to that I had always dabbled in cash and lost quite heavily. I think the reason behind that is probably similar to most who crossover.... simply being sng/mtts v cash games are very differrent. You have to get yourself out of that mindset and be prepared to make some wholesale changes to your game and adapt.

With regards to BRM, yes there are some really good thread available on here, I suggest you use the search facility, b/c no one can give you correct advice on this b/c it's so personal. Read up on it and then make your choices.

In general, a winning player with some tolerance for risk can get away with: 300x big bet for limit, 20 buy-in for no/pot limit, 40x buy-in for single table tourneys, and 100x buy-in for MTT's.

If you have a proven win rate (over 10k hands) and don't mind re-loading from outside income then you can push it a little but you REALLY increase your chances of busting. No bank is big enough for a losing player.

Keep records!

Agree with everything here, especially the last one `KEEP RECORDS` !!!

You could also review the BR management details that Chris Ferguson used during his -$0- to $10,000 Challenge.

Online Poker at Full Tilt Poker - All Promotions: Chris Ferguson Challenge

One of the pros had a good way of building he said to never play more than 10% of your money and that way you keep getting better at those games and eventually you will be playing with better players as you learn. Sounds like good advice to me try it

When I started out, I deposited $12, turned it into something like $54 in a weekend at $.01/$.02 NL, and then blew it all in a couple days.
Then I deposited $13 more (I had a $25 Visa All-Access card), and played too tight, slowly losing it over a few weeks.

I deposited $50 a month later, this time I decided to give it my all.

My problem:
Every time my BR would get to $70 ($20 profit) I'd start to slack off. I had four full-buy-ins profit and I was playing short-stack anyway, and that $20 wasn't "real" money to me anyway, so I did not play smart with it. I'd use the "extra" money to take chances and make plays that I wouldn't normally make.
When my BR would dwindle down to $52 or so, I'd come back to my senses. I didn't want to be a losing player, so I'd put all my effort back into grinding and playing my best. But when I'd get to $20 in profit again, I'd start to slack off, and repeat the cycle.

Three things fixed my game:
1. PokerTracker. I got PokerTracker which put everything I did on my permanent record. I *hate* having red marks on my permanent record, so in that drastically cut down on my "oh what the heck" plays.
Due to fear of red stats, I tended to play when I thought I could win. That is, if I was tired, bored, and distracted, I didn't let myself play because I knew that playing then would be hazardous to my stats.

2. Leaning about online play. I had read several poker books before making a deposit, but they were based on live play, not online play. Many of the principals apply (like the math), but there are other things you need to know. My big revelation was what people were willing to call. I'd just half-pot my way to the river when I had a good hand.
Specifically, a couple videos I saw of a guy playing $25NL drastically changed how I saw the game. He pointed out some some behavior that proved invaluable, and showed me the power of a c-bet. (I think one of the videos is here (http://www.cardschat.com/f53/25-6-max-100-6-max-104001/))

3. Moving up in stakes. This is normally a mistake, but I was good enough to move up. Part of my problem was getting bored. When I had a profit, losing a few centes here and a few cents there meant very little to me. But when I put $20 aside to play the $.05/$.10 rings, well, that was a *big* difference from $.01/$.02. Those numbers meant something to me, and kept me on my toes.

Those three things made my stats go from an EKG pulse to a nice stable climb.

Basically, #1 and #3 were me knowing my weaknesses and taking steps to compensate. #2 was a bonus that just added steroids to my game, making the winning graph steeper than it otherwise would have been.

So if I were to give advice to a beginner who's looking to move up, I'd say to start at the lowest levels. He should be *able* to beat those consistantly. If you can't, then either you're sample size is too small or you have some learning to do. (IE, you're getting involved in big pots with only top-pair/top-kicker and other rookie moves) I *hate* hearing people complaining about people playing at the lowest levels because of all the calling machines. Calling machines might result in greater swings, but they should also result in a higher overall profit.

Next, once you know you can win consistantly if you really try, do something that will give you some sort of accountability. Like I said, PokerTracker helped by putting every dumb play on my record and it was my biggest motivation keep my stats high/optimal/green.
But in addition to PokerTracker I set up some rules about my play. I could not play for real money if I had a beer that day. I could play for real money if the TV was on. I could not play for real money if I was tired, or moody.

As far as learning about online play, check CardsChat's video section and their hand analysis section. It's a *great* way to learn from other people's mistakes.

Now, I'd be hesitant to advise someone to move up when they're not winning consistantly at a lower level. But if your losses are due to boredom, that could be a good move. I made a rule for myself (I make a lot of rules for myself). When I won $20, I could put that to a higher limit game. If I lost $20 at that level, I'd have to make $25 before I could move up again. Then if I lost $20 I'd have to repeat the process. That way I had a $5 profit.
As it turned out, excelled at the higher limit, and never looked back. But I would have stuck to that rule. You know, come to think of it, I hated the idea of having to move back down to the lower level. I think not wanting to lose and grind it out at the bottom level again was part of my motivation.

If you are trying to Build your BR, the main advice I can give you is to stick to the stakes you are comftably winning at at the moment. Past micro stakes I think Cash games probally have the least variance, but SNGs and MTTS can be more profitable but you will have to be ready for the downswings and the tough variance espically for MTTS. Once you have won quite a lot at those stakes, I'd try moving up. If you Lose, move down and try it all again, eventually you will be conftable at all stakes if you try hard enough!

Thanks everyone! It sounds like I need to stay away from the ring games for awhile til I build up the br. I think I'll stick with the $1 and $2 sng's. and same for mtt's. Don't theink my game is ready for a move up from there yet.

hey thanks savagepenguinn...your post helps me a lot too! ^^
hopefully il learn a lot thank you

Ring Games are your key. Stick with micro limit ring games and freerolls to improve your tourney play. The discipline you aquire will make you a monster when you reach the higher limits. Take advantage of online play by multi tabling smaller stakes instead of one big table. jump around alot. 20% profit and jump. Max 50% loss and jump.

1.Set a limit on how much your willing to lose in 1 game,or win.
2.stick to games you are good at.
3.if you get a bad streak,stop a day or so.
4.set an idea how much you wanna make to cashout
5.repeat..

well the smaller my bank roll gets the better i play... when i am up about $1000 i play to donk around for a few mins for fun... when i am nearly broke i get serious and rebuild... i cant understand why i cant always play to win, somtimes i throw it way.

I'm like this all the time. It seems like I only crack down if my BR is way way down, near broke, but once I start building and building I tend to get more carefree and end up blowing a lot of it just to build it back up again.

i think you are correct in staying with s&g's and MTT's. you already know you are doing well there. when you are ready, just go up in stakes. the rate of better players will not go up for awhile. so you will still do well i am sure. good luck with it.

My only piece of advise to you is to stop playing net poker...lol...now you think im an azz but im tellin you now gl at keepin the br up ... its not you donking it away....its the donks takin it..this net poker is unpredictable and ruthless ... i feel its a rip so i dont buy in.... find freerolls and try to build your roll on someone els'e dime....sounds cheap right???.....well if your not out of pocket.. it doesnt feel so bad when they donk it away....GL at the felt....brick and mortar that is.

$1 and $2 dollar 9 man sit n' go's are always a great way to make a profit. Usually you will find yourself in the top 3..

My new bankroll thing iam trying out is the 5% rule for SNG and MTT and 10% rule for cash games ( i got this idea from Chris Ferguson)
Example:
Bankroll = $300
SNG or MTT max buy-in = $15
max cash game buy-in = $30

IIRC, Chris didn't buy in for 10% of his bankroll for cash games because if you look at your example, that's only giving you 10 buy-ins, which is not enough at all if you want a solid BR. I think he bought in for 5% of his BR and left when the money at the table represented 10% of his BR. I also think he bought in for less for MTTs. $15 buy-in with a $300 roll seems pretty high.FYI, your advice sucks.

He never bought into a cash game or a Sit & Go for more than 5 percent of his total bankroll; the only exception was at the lowest limits: he was allowed to buy into any game with a buy-in of $2.50 or less
He didn’t buy into any multi-table tournaments for more than 2 percent of his total bankroll; the only exception was $1 MTTs
If at any time during a No-Limit or Pot-Limit cash-game session the money on the table represented more than 10 percent of his total bankroll, he had to leave the game when the blinds reached him