Book Discussion: Play Poker Like a Pigeon and Take the Money Home

#1 24th February 2009, 10:57 PM

This discussion started on another thread, but I think it should be on its own thread.

I highly recommend the book , but it is contraversial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipshot55

No, honestly, it's a real book according to Amazon.com: Play Poker Like a Pigeon (And Take The Money Home): Books

The author is "Anonymous", obviously to protect him/her from those of us who are minions of the One World Poker Order, who claims to be a 30+ year professional poker player. (Hmmm, GDRileyx

)

From a five star review:

"He offers up a couple tips on how to give the table the impression that you are a pigeon (fish, basically). They include playing a small pot to showdown after raising with a trash hand from early position, accidentally knocking your cards face up as they go into the muck so the players can see the trash you cold called an EP raise with, and a couple more. "

Which the reviewer considers to be "good" advice. This is good. I really, really need to catch up on my idiot lessons.

From a one star review (because there are no zero star reviews):

"This book is the biggest waste of money any poker player could find.

If you enjoy stories, check it out of the library. The poker "advice" is marginal, and the math is simply WRONG.

Several important examples : His completely error-filled "proof" that the board will pair 60% of the time while 5 cards dealt "to players in a circle" will contain a pair 40% of the time. The man clearly has NO grasp of even high-school level probability.

This travesty of probability theory appears on page 67. Read it for a good laugh. There is absolutely NO difference in the probability of 5 cards selected at random containing a pair based on the METHOD of dealing.

He also misstates all probabilities of hands on the flop by simply doubling your outs... a common error from novices, but not one that should be espoused by any "expert". (30+ years, remember)

And of course he claims (incorrectly by FAR) that "pot odds" are based on the number of players in the hand. Pot odds in limit poker are based on the number of BETS already in the pot.

I'm not going to go on. I suspect at least some of the reviews here are shills for "anonymous". "

Okay, I'm convinced. The hell with books that actually name the author(s), I'im going with someone who won't name put their name on the cover.

I have to admit, I didn't think highly of the idea that a board would pair more often than cards dealt in a circle. But I would like to know what are the flaws in the math.

But I don't understand your issue with doubling the outs after the flop, because there are two draws. I agree that doubling the outs to calculate pot odds is erroneous, because there is going to be another round of betting, but for determining your chances of hitting by the river, you certainly double the outs when calculating post flop.

#2 24th February 2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

"This book is the biggest waste of money any poker player could find.

...

#3 24th February 2009, 11:03 PM

Didnt Pantin pay u 5$ to leave? as in forever?

#4 24th February 2009, 11:05 PM

fml, do we really need a 2nd thread for this shit

#5 24th February 2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDRileyx

I have to admit, I didn't think highly of the idea that a board would pair more often than cards dealt in a circle. But I would like to know what are the flaws in the math.

well let's see there are 5 cards total on the board and if a card is dealt to 5 players in a circle then that's 5 cards total

the fundamental flaw in the math can be illustrated by use of the simple equation 5 = 5

#6 24th February 2009, 11:07 PM

I don't honestly know.. I haven't read this book but the reviews that I looked at on a few sites seemed very negative towards it.. therefore I cannot comment on what was written because I haven't read it. Based on its reviews, I don't think Ill be buying it simply because there are a ton of books with much better reviews.

If the discussion here indicates that its better than the reviews claimed I might change my mind.

#7 24th February 2009, 11:18 PM

Stu Ungar posted one bad review of this book, as if that proved it was a bad book. What's the statistical significance of a sample size of one, Stu? Does it meet your high standards of proof, so often leveled at my contentions?

From: http://ezinearticles.com/?Poker-Book...Home&id=657511
This brilliant little book (213 pages), published in 2007, stands an excellent chance of turning the careful student into a masterfully disguised limit hold’em ninja.

From: http://schwartz.casinocitytimes.com/articles/34478.html
To me it sounds like he's definitely been there. In this offbeat, easy reading, well-opinionated book, you'll pick up some gems, some semi-precious stones and maybe more than a little understanding of what to expect if you plan to turn pro and leave your job.

#8 24th February 2009, 11:20 PM

I think that my above post was polite and honest.

If you wish to engage in a battle of wits, you may find yourself unarmed

#9 24th February 2009, 11:20 PM

No, Pantin said he would pay me to stop posting about online poker being rigged. How long does one of those transfers take to go through? Because I don't see any money yet.

#10 24th February 2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDRileyx

Stu Ungar posted one bad review of this book, as if that proved it was a bad book. What's the statistical significance of a sample size of one, Stu? Does it meet your high standards of proof, so often leveled at my contentions?

From: http://ezinearticles.com/?Poker-Book...Home&id=657511
This brilliant little book (213 pages), published in 2007, stands an excellent chance of turning the careful student into a masterfully disguised limit hold’em ninja.

From: http://schwartz.casinocitytimes.com/articles/34478.html
To me it sounds like he's definitely been there. In this offbeat, easy reading, well-opinionated book, you'll pick up some gems, some semi-precious stones and maybe more than a little understanding of what to expect if you plan to turn pro and leave your job.

When im looking for new books there is one CC guy ask and then i check reviews on the "math" forum of a poker book publishing company.
Here is the C/P review of this book:

Seriously, this is one of the worst books I've ever read. I want a refund on my time. Besides being a complete tool, the author just gives studpid bone-head advise. His writing style is soooo annoying and just bad. I think the real reason he chose not to put his name on the book is because it is so bad. Basically author wants to teach you how to make alot of money while not being known and being percieved as a fish, while not too bad of an idea, the execution of said thesis is horrible. Among other things author insults Sklansky's playing style and says that anyone who plays by "the numbers" is throwing their money away. I threw away $15 on this book and strongly suggest that nobody else dose. At some points the author is clearly trying to come across as funny, (kinda like Vince Burgio in Pizza, Pasta, and Poker) but it just doesn't work. This book was truly terrible, save your money.

#11 24th February 2009, 11:27 PM

I think more highly of the writing than I do of the advice. I thought it was genuinely funny, even after several reads.

The average of customer reviews on Amazon is 4 pokerstars out of 5.

#12 24th February 2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDRileyx

I think more highly of the writing than I do of the advice. I thought it was genuinely funny, even after several reads.

when i buy a poker book i whant some thing that will make me a better player,if i need a laugh i will buy a book(or more likly watch a movie/youtube) that is marketed as a funny book not one marketed as a "poker guide".

#13 24th February 2009, 11:52 PM

A little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down.

I slogged through Hansen's Every Card Revealed in about a week, because it was soooooo dry. A little bit of humor wouldn't have hurt that book at all. And Sklansky, my goodness. I take that book on the casino bus, so that after the adrenelin of a poker tournament, I can read a chapter and take a nice nap on the way home.

All three books have made me a better player, but a think a book that is also enjoyable to read is preferable to one which is not.

#14 24th February 2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDRileyx

A little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down.

I slogged through Hansen's Every Card Revealed in about a week, because it was soooooo dry. A little bit of humor wouldn't have hurt that book at all. And Sklansky, my goodness. I take that book on the casino bus, so that after the adrenelin of a poker tournament, I can read a chapter and take a nice nap on the way home.

All three books have made me a better player, but a think a book that is also enjoyable to read is preferable to one which is not.

all sugar and no medicine isnt going to make u feel better tho

#15 25th February 2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDRileyx

A little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down.

I slogged through Hansen's Every Card Revealed in about a week, because it was soooooo dry. A little bit of humor wouldn't have hurt that book at all. And Sklansky, my goodness. I take that book on the casino bus, so that after the adrenelin of a poker tournament, I can read a chapter and take a nice nap on the way home.

All three books have made me a better player, but a think a book that is also enjoyable to read is preferable to one which is not.

This book might be the funniest thing ever but if its advice is bad(judging from the majority of reviews i found it is) it will hurt your game.
I much rather read the "dry" works of Sklansky if it means more more $ in my BR then read a comedy book with bad advice that might add leaks to my game instead of plugging them.

#16 25th February 2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDRileyx

A little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down.

I slogged through Hansen's Every Card Revealed in about a week, because it was soooooo dry. A little bit of humor wouldn't have hurt that book at all. And Sklansky, my goodness. I take that book on the casino bus, so that after the adrenelin of a poker tournament, I can read a chapter and take a nice nap on the way home.

All three books have made me a better player, but a think a book that is also enjoyable to read is preferable to one which is not.

That seems quite reasonable. Id certainly rather read something that is both informative and enjoyable.

Currently I am looking at volume 2 of Harrington on Cash games sat on my bookshelf.. I will read it soon, but the first one was very dry and wordy and felt quite an effort to read.

Trouble is that many of the most useful books are written in a very dry format. So whilst a the style of writing will certainly sway my decision to read a book.. what I'm really looking for is content.

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