Big Blind's that defend with crap hands...

I bust out of tournamnets so often vs. the BB on crazy stupid hands. I'am UTG and I raise to 3XBB/90 early in the tournament with pp7's. Not a great hand, but I was hoping to only see a flop and maybe hit a set who knows. Everyone folds to the BB only have to call 60 huh why not play my Qd3d maybe I'll get lucky? The flop AdKd7d - now I was happy cause of the 3 d's on the board. He bet 90 (looked like a draw to me) so I pushed all in so he didn't have a chance to catch another d on the turn or river. He thinks and thinks and thinks and then finally calls with Qd3d = slowroll. He had the best hand with out a doubt and he had to think about it? OK 2 things why was this ****ing DONK even calling with Qd3d in the BB? You can't know your not him so I ask him. He said I thought you where trying to steal my BB. I said I was UTG meathead. Then I asked why did you take so long to call? He said and I quote "I was scared you have a set". The chat erupted into DONK this and DONK that.... I finally was able to see his reply - he said "this is my first tournament on PS". The ****ing $55 $50,000 dollar/G is his first tournament on Pokerstars how nice a true life DONK that doesn't even know that the nut flush beats a set beat me cause he just thought I was trying to steal his blind!!!!!


I wish to thank all the people that say DONKs get lucky in the short term and it will adventually run out. Why do they have to get lucky vs. me so ****ing often? I never bust out of a tournament vs. a hand that A should have been played and B with out a bad beat.

Some might say would you have been happier if he had say QdJd and he hit is flush (royal flush draw) sure I would have been happier and felt better unless the guy wasn't ****ing sure if a flush beat a set!!!!!

No offense but i think your suffering from a bad case of selective memory.
Do you have any software like pokertracker on your computer?
Im sorry but i just dont belive that you allways get knocked out by bad beat.

OK give me a break "always" is a stupid word to critize someone about when they just got beat by a complete DONK that didn't even know he won the hand until PokerStars shoved the chips over to him.

Do I get knocked out of tournaments more than 70% of the time with a stupid beat or bad beat YESSSSS. There is a difference between a bad beat and a stupid beat (IMO).

A bad beat is you have AA and someone has KJ - flop AQ3 - you bet large and the idiot goes all-in and you call only for the idiot to hit his 3 outer a 10 in this case on the river and win.

A stupid beat is similar, but it's something like this you have AsKs - the flop is AdKc7s - you move all in only to be called with a guy with pocket QQ and he hits his Q on the river. He had a good hand, but was stupid enough to call even though he knew that the guy had an A or K or better.

I get knocked out 70% of the time vs. stupid/bad beats.

The tournament just before that one I had Kc7c on the button and I limped after 3 other limpers and the flop comes out 7 4 2 - I bet the pot and get called by 1 player, the turn a K, I bet the pot again, get called, the river an A, I go all-in and get called from a guy with A2. Now that is both a stupid beat and a bad beat at the same time.

I'm going to down load all my tournaments on pokertracker and post them here so you can all see how friggin unlucky I am.

Wel , I guess I'm a fn donkey too then because i would have defended there too. Your right the guys a jerk for slow rolling you but jerks arn't always bad card players.

True I can't really argue a ton there except he didn't even know that a flush beat a set. I sure hope you know the difference...

On another note you would really defend your BB with Qd3d. The blinds where only 15/30. It's not much to sacrifice there vs. 60 to call and come up dry and then I bet and you fold or even worst you his your Q on the flop I check, you bet, I call, the turn a 2, I check you bet, I call, ect. to find out I had AQ and you just lost half your chips cause you wanted to defend a very small amount of chips in your BB.

Its early in the tournament and you're pushing to take down 195 pot, so when they do get lucky they are taking all your chips (or you draw out). Maybe he didn't know the odds of set making full house or was just worried about going bust so early in first $55 tournament. Not really a bad beat when he calls only 60 while behind and whole stack as 2/3 favorite. Get most of your money in ahead before calling it a bad beat.

brent. you're a mad person. go outside and get some fresh air.

theres nothing wrong with defending a BB in that situation, lol. it's obviously the beginning of the tournament so a 3x bb bet isnt an overly significant raise, enough to make him not call if hes the only one left in the pot besides the raiser. i'd have defended there too.

quit complaining about other peoples' game and worry about your own. im sure theres plenty to keep you busy. figure out ways to profit from bad players and you'll be alright.

also, just a tip. using the F word, especially in a topic, is a good way to potentially get in trouble. just a word of warning

You guys are all correct I'm pissed off thats all.

It is frustrating to loose to a player that doesn't even know a flush beats a set though. He said this after the hand was over. He thought a set beats a flush. Oh well. That is why I only play online poker once a week (tonight) anymore.

The thing is, in the long run you beat people who don't know a flush beats a set. Think long-term and you won't have a big problem. On another note, doing this with Q3d isn't horrible. He's got huge implied odds and most tournament players (note, didn't say most GOOD players, just most players online) don't understand how to play deep. So if he thought he could outplay you postflop if he hit a big hand and you overplayed your overpair or top pair, it's a fine play. Obviously that's not what happened though lol.

I know he called with crap there and got lucky, but your push on the flop is only going to be called by a better hand. The risk/reward for that bet just wasn't worth it IMO.

What exactly did you think he was defending with if you pushed on the flop?? You say "why would he defend with garbage ?"but when you pushed you obviously put him on garbage???

I put him on a draw that I didn't want him to get too for free. Regardless I'm not mad about his defend I was more outraged by the fact that a guy that didn't know that a flush beats a set beat me in a hand.

Youre losing these tournaments not because of bad beats but because you are over emotional. What are you going all in without the nuts so early. These blinds are low. Let these weak players get themselves in trouble.
You play once a week? Play it everyday like most of us do and see all the freaky things that happen. Remember you want all these level 1 players at the table. You cant beat them something is wrong with you.
You should be beating them 70% of the time.
Do you ever think that someone acts like a rank amateur to get inside your head. Read Mike Caro in Doyles Super System. I try to do it all the time.

The low level player and the high level player all loose to me when I play down at Foxwoods. I'm up just over 2K in 2008 down there. I only can afford to play the $1/$2 NL and have only been down 4 times this year. I busted out once for $500 (cause I brought back in $200). So I've won about $2700 in 3 trips. When I play in my poker league (live play) I dominate. This quarter I've played in 12 total SNG's - won 6, three 2nds, and a 3rd place. The bad part is that in the poker league it's not worth much. I just placed 5 out of 50 people to play in our monthly MTT. Live poker I run soooo good. Online I loose on crazy odd hands every friggin time.

so you say youre so "unlucky". Does that mean in live play you consider yourself "lucky". Or do you just think that you are plain good and that when you get beat online that its for some other reason.
Online the play comes faster and there are more people in the MTT's. Plus the blinds rise faster.. Maybe you are not adjusting to the difference.
From the way youre easily willing to explode the F bombs it looks like to me you are not one to clearly analyze certain situations. And that means to take into account all that is happening around you.
We've all got our horror stories. Its not unheard of good poker players losing 20 times consecutively. But you can be sure they make it up when they do win that one time. No use crying about it. You aint different from no one. Online can be lucrative because there are so many beginners. Learn to take advantage of it.

I concur.

We are not given stack sizes here, but early in the tournament we are presumably pretty deep. I would be inclined to overbet the pot a little to price out draws.

If the opponent re-raises, he is either a complete idiot, very tricky, or he`s got the flush. You at least give yourself a chance to get away from the hand.

Your opening bet was too small. You gave him the opportunity to call and defend his BB.

$50K GTD, $55 buy-in, 3,000 starting stacks. Full to the brim of poor players and the occasional good one

OP, why push all in with these stack sizes, you can easily re-raise without committing yourself.

Above.

Also, you seem to throw the word 'donk' around a lot. Ever consider the possibility that this play is actually new and doesn't know what he is doing? I have to say, your play wasn't exactly pro-like. In fact, I'd say is pretty borderline donkish the way you played the hand. I dont think of the word DONK as just "A bad player" but also "A player who makes bad moves/decisions" and that, IMO, is what you did.

Of course, I wont say anything because I and everyone else knows I fall into the donk category. ...but hey, sometimes it takes one to know one.

ETA: Just read that starting stack is 3K, which makes your shove play an even worse one. Maybe you should be more concerned on how to improve your game more and not risk your tournament so early. If I were you, I'd be more upset at how I played the hand than my opponents holdings.

Just a thought.

I read an article not long ago that said that a good player never complains about a "DONK" at his table.

Verily, the pro should do all he can to bolster his confidence and keep him at the table as long as possible.

If you're a good player, I don't see any reason to complain about the opposition playing bad poker.

Having said that (and being a "DONK" myself, with my 3 months of experience), I have seen my own bad beats by hands that never should have made it past the flop. If I'm any good, I'll see how the guy is playing and adjust accordingly ....... and take HIS money in the end.

What did Greenstein say? "I don't make my money playing against the top level pros, I make it by preying on the weaker players". (or words to that effect).

Just because you where under the gun doesn't mean you weren't stealing, its actually a strategical move to steal from this position since ussually no on calls raises from people UTG, due to strong hands......although you had a person who probably doesnt know too much about this and called so he got lucky and you got unlucky, thats it.

Also what stakes, if this is a 1$-5$ mtt or sng I'm not suprised really.

Now that I've read your post, against you I would. Huge implied odds obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentD22
I bust out of tournamnets so often vs. the BB on crazy stupid hands.
...If you think your tournament stats are bad, you should check out mine.

I'am UTG and I raise to 3XBB/90 early in the tournament with pp7's. Not a great hand, but I was hoping to only see a flop and maybe hit a set who knows. Everyone folds to the BB only have to call 60 huh why not play my Qd3d maybe I'll get lucky?
...Well, the BB is getting about 2:1 on his money to call. The stacks are deep and if hits a strong flop, he might be able to get you to give up a lot of your chips. Honestly, here I might make this call with a similar just because of a) large stack relative to the blinds a b) odds Im getting.

The flop AdKd7d - now I was happy cause of the 3 d's on the board. He bet 90 (looked like a draw to me) so I pushed all in so he didn't have a chance to catch another d on the turn or river.
...I think you meant to say you weren't happy about the 3 diamonds. Or maybe you were. Question: If you think his bet was weak bet, wouldn't the better option been have to raise him and see where he stands? Lets look at a few possible scenarios:

Before we do that, lets assume that starting stacks are 1500 and blinds are 15/30. So, after you opponent bets out on the flop the pot is: 285. Your stack is: 1410 and your opponents is: 1320. The scenarios:

A-You shove all in. You risk 1410 of your stack to win 285. Your opponent calls and has the flush and you dont improve. You have outs on the redraw, but you're going up against a made hand.

B-You shove all in, again risking your stack for a small flop. Your opponent calls with the flush draw and hits it on the turn or the river. Now here, you had a strong hand and you got your money in with the best hand at the time, but the question is was it worth to risk your tournament life on such a small pot?

C-Your opponent bets 90 and you repop him to 290. Your opponent calls the bet and a diamond hits the turn. Your opponent checks, you check trying to pair the board on the river. It misses and your opponent makes a small value bet and you fold the 4 flush board. You give up the hand, but you're still in the game.

D-Your opponent bets out, you reraise an your opponent calls. The turn is a blank. You opponent checks, you bet, he calls. The river is a blank, the opponent bets out small, you call, and fold to a flopped flush. Again, you lost the hand, but you're still in the game.

The above examples were all losing scenarios, but the point is that you could've gone about the hand in a different way, still lost, but still be in the game.

He thinks and thinks and thinks and then finally calls with Qd3d = slowroll.
...I agree he is slowrolling, but Id be busy fist pumping, too.

He had the best hand with out a doubt and he had to think about it? OK 2 things why was this ****ing DONK even calling with Qd3d in the BB?
...If he is a new player: probably over-valuing suited cards. Thinking, strategic player: He's probably putting you on a strong hand-pair, AK, AQ maybe. Hes getting 2:1 on his money and if he flops 2 pair or a flush and you hit your top pair or have an over pair he has a chance to bust you.

You can't know your not him so I ask him. He said I thought you where trying to steal my BB. I said I was UTG meathead. Then I asked why did you take so long to call? He said and I quote "I was scared you have a set". The chat erupted into DONK this and DONK that.... I finally was able to see his reply - he said "this is my first tournament on PokerStars".
...Again look up stats. I dont think he is a new player. This sounds like a little ploy to look like a bad player/dead money to other players. I dont see how a 'new' player can know and understand something like blind stealing and blind defending, but not know hand ranks. Also, name calling is not necessary.

The ****ing $55 $50,000 dollar/G is his first tournament on Pokerstars how nice a true life DONK that doesn't even know that the nut flush beats a set beat me cause he just thought I was trying to steal his blind!!!!!
...Read above reply, but for the sake of argument lets say he is a new player and he doesnt know hand rankings, why would the buy-in matter? Even if he is new (I dont want to say DONK because there is a difference between bad players and new players) I dont see why him playing in a $55 MTT would mean anything. Maybe he has a lot of money and wants to learn playing the big games. Who knows and who cares. Completely irrelevant, unless you think that all new plays have to start at the lower stakes...

I wish to thank all the people that say DONKs get lucky in the short term and it will adventually run out.
...Show me a bad player who is winning and I'll show you a bad player who is still running hot. Thats all it is.

Why do they have to get lucky vs. me so ****ing often? I never bust out of a tournament vs. a hand that A should have been played and B with out a bad beat.
...Selective memory. What is 'often' Also, whats with the talk about hands that should/shouldn't be played? Where are the rules and regulations that tell me and every other player what to and not to play?

Some might say would you have been happier if he had say QdJd and he hit is flush (royal flush draw) sure I would have been happier and felt better unless the guy wasn't ****ing sure if a flush beat a set!
...Even if he did he did have QdJd, he still hit his hand and got you to pay him off. So, why would that make you feel better? Because the hand he called with PF was one of the hands he 'should' be playing? Also, did you consider the possibility that you opponent was setting a trap? Yeah, you had a set but there were 3 suits on the board. Try testing out the waters next time with a raise. See where you're at in the hand instead of risking your $55 tournament so early for such a small pot.
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Very well said Philthy. With such insightful knowledge how can you say you are a donk.

Its just an act so people give me less credit for hands and I can trap them. Im actually Chris Moneymaker in disguise.

I saw Brents account of this hand in another thread. He didn't push on the flop like it seems in this posting. He bet 90 was raised to 300.... money in on river. Guy was slowrolling on river, didn't know the nuts.

Oh he actually says I pushed so he couldn't catch turn or river, completely different story/ same cards under "set on scary flop" thread. What really happened Brent?

Nice post Plithy. I got to keep reminding people we all were "donks" once. Now we are lesser "donks". But we still make donk moves. Yesterday while playing Razz I had 863 and popped an Ace then a 2. I went after the lone villian who obviously had a 9 low. I kept raising and he kept calling. I started to wonder why? Well that 2 that I thought was a 2 happened to be another 3. I didnt really take a good look at it and got greedy. Plus I had the tv on and was not focused. A real "donk" move. Everyone around the table were posting ???. The guy with the 9 low even felt bad. I was hee hawing for the rest of the nite. It didnt help I was 15 away from the money.

Would you include this hand in the 70%? You were ahead when you put in 90 chips and behind when you put in 2910. Bad play, not bad beat

You may be tearing it up at Foxwoods, but if you are betting 3K chips to win 300 or so (1/10 odds) you clearly have no understanding or feel for the game.

You could do, but when you accept that you are losing hands and tournaments (it's lose and losing, not loose and loosing by the way ) due to bad play and not bad luck you will hopefully improve your play dramatically, and you'll enjoy it more.

When's the next 50K i want to know!

Hey guys listen I have never defended my play. Matter of fact I agree it was a poor play. I had a read and I was wrong. I really thought he had 1 diamond and I didn't want him to draw to it. I thought that there was only 1 bet I could make to ensure he wouldn't chase. Of course he wasn't chasing. I was more annoyed that I got beat by a guy that said he didn't know if a set beat a flush plus he had the nut flush.

Matter of a fact I will say my play was horrible on this hand (unless I won the hand it would have been amazing, JK LOL).

I don't feel like looking back, but someone made a great comment about the guy doing his best to look stupid for advertisment to the rest of the players. This is a great point. Maybe I got slow rolled by a good player that took advantage of this situation and acted like an "DONK".

I got STTEAAMM heat

I got steeeammm heat

Radiators hissin, still I get no kissin...