Being a Vegas Pro, Esta.

bushy_lufc

bushy_lufc

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Hello all i currently live in England and as the title suggests i am looking to make a living in Vegas. I understand that you can only visit America 90 days at a time but my question is once that 90 days is up and i go back to England or any other country in say Europe how long is it i must wait to come back for another 90 days? Also is there a limit to how many times i can do this?

Thank you for any 'helpful' responses.
 
Debi

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I can't remember for sure but I think it is 90 days. And yes there is a limit - after a few times of doing that you will start having problems.

I hope you have a LOT of money saved up because if not this is a terrible idea. :)
 
stevenright

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why are you a pro just in vegas?
 
bushy_lufc

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I have 2 questions from the 2 replies! firstly i have plenty of money and why would it be a bad idea believe me the $1/$2 standard is horribly bad and so easy to beat! also Vegas has such a large footfall for tourists and bad players you simply just do not get this in England i would love to play for a living out there! Is there any way around being able to stay?
 
stevenright

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so, you don't like online poker, right? Isn't there any high stakes anywhere close that you can live?

I think there must be too much burocracy to legally move to states, i have friends that just went there and kept staying until they got the green card.
But i've no idea what it is to be done, never researched it.

look it up about it, maybe you can live like them, just keep staying until you stayed for too long they don't kick you out lol
 
Debi

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I have 2 questions from the 2 replies! firstly i have plenty of money and why would it be a bad idea believe me the $1/$2 standard is horribly bad and so easy to beat! also Vegas has such a large footfall for tourists and bad players you simply just do not get this in England i would love to play for a living out there! Is there any way around being able to stay?

It would be a bad idea if you have less than $50-100k. You wouldn't survive. You need to be old enough to play and young enough to have no responsibilities in life and be willing to lose all of that money and go back home and start over. :)

The only way you could stay would be to marry an American and get a green card. Or get a real job with a company who is willing to spend thousands of dollars to sponsor you. (Better have that job before you move).
 
stevenright

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I don't think is of any difficult to get that american woman to marry you with that much money you have :)
 
bushy_lufc

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$50k-$100k haha really?!?! it is like $600 a month for an apartment out there... and with the amount of amazing promos and bad players you can safely making $3-$5k a month at the lowest limits. As long as youre ok with playing solid and not running any big bluffs and you are ok with not going out a lot whilst building your bankroll im sure that less than $10k is fine for the lowest limits! (you have to be willing to have a stop loss of say $400 for any given session)
 
bushy_lufc

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How long were they doing it before they got their green card? i have been told that after 3/4 times of going there with 2-4 weeks out going back for 90 days there will be a lot of questions asked?

Online poker gets incredibly boring and is a lot tougher to beat!

Live casinos here are also a lot tougher compared to Vegas and i live a 1 hour minimum drive from the nearest casino and the foot fall is not great here unless its the weekend!
 
Debi

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$50k-$100k haha really?!?! it is like $600 a month for an apartment out there... and with the amount of amazing promos and bad players you can safely making $3-$5k a month at the lowest limits. As long as youre ok with playing solid and not running any big bluffs and you are ok with not going out a lot whilst building your bankroll im sure that less than $10k is fine for the lowest limits! (you have to be willing to have a stop loss of say $400 for any given session)

You are vastly underestimating how much money you will need in the bank and vastly overestimating how much money you can "safely" make.

Don't go. :)
 
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You are vastly underestimating how much money you will need in the bank and vastly overestimating how much money you can "safely" make.

Don't go. :)

This.

If you are so sure of what is possible, why even pose this question in the first place?
 
WVHillbilly

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This sounds like a great idea. Looking forward to future updates. gl
 
Debi

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This.

If you are so sure of what is possible, why even pose this question in the first place?

Well his question is about how long he can stay and how soon he can go back.

But it is moot point since he will be broke before the 1st trip is even over.
 
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Well his question is about how long he can stay and how soon he can go back.

But it is moot point since he will be broke before the 1st trip is even over.

I get that. And I agree with your second statement.

What I meant by my post is that if the OP really knew that it was that easy to make 5K a month he would be on the first flight out. After the first three months and his easy 15K he would then ask "how do I do that again?"
 
S3mper

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$50k-$100k haha really?!?! it is like $600 a month for an apartment out there... and with the amount of amazing promos and bad players you can safely making $3-$5k a month at the lowest limits. As long as youre ok with playing solid and not running any big bluffs and you are ok with not going out a lot whilst building your bankroll im sure that less than $10k is fine for the lowest limits! (you have to be willing to have a stop loss of say $400 for any given session)

Stop losses do NOT work in poker I don't understand why people say that - I understand it in investing but not poker..

The only exception is stop losses for tilt if you are going to tilt you probably shouldn't try to make a living off of it

Reason stop losses don't work in poker (other then tilt control) is because you are either losing because of variance in which case more hands not less hands is the solution and the other reason is you can't beat the game in which case no amount of stop losses will matter.

The other thing people do that is a mistake is quitting while they are dominating the game because they have made their daily goal

I saw an article over at DTB that I now always think of when I think of this

"Why poker players are like taxi drivers"


http://christykeenan.com/2014/04/22/poker-players-like-taxi-drivers/

Another thing is that real life gets in the way of this as well, I made a thread somewhat like this and just never tried lol I got busy in life and never gave it a legitimate shot (almost glad I didn't) Though would love to for funsies.

I'm also assuming that you have to pay taxes even if you are just visiting I don't see you taking 5 grand a month out of the US economy without paying some taxes.
 
bushy_lufc

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OK i have a lot of questions and responses to address if i miss any or misquote any then apologies im not going back and forth im just typing into the open box....

Somebody asked why i even asked if i know there is money to be made.... my question was not can i make money it was how many times can i come into the country on an Esta and how long do i have to be out of the country before my 90 days restarts!

Dakota, i appreciate your concern and you do speak sense but i am very confident of my ability and of the 'ability' of my opponents out there, i will not be starting at $2/$5 and i will stay away from $1/$3 (max buy in $500) until i have safely 35-50 buy ins for that level.

I met 5/6 grinders out there 4 of them were purely promotion grinders, the rock/nit/tight regs that are purely only over limping small pairs and suited connectors and raising with AK TT-AA and stacking off with AA/KK pre and believe me these ranges if anything are too wide for what they do and all of them are pretty honest between them i had a guy who said he loses maybe $500 a month 2 of them said they break even give or take a buy in come the end of each month and the other one won around an average of $1000.

These players above i speak of were so transparent and poor and unaware of anything else other than their cards, they were usually sat listening to music or watching things on their ipad looking to purely get the 10 hours in for the monthly promo...

i then met 2 guys who were playing for the promotions and claimed to win at the tables whilst doing so, one of which i am positive would win. The first guy spoke a good game but he was maybe a bit too aggressive for the level meaning his variance would be pretty huge, he was giving players too much respect in the way they think.

The second player i am sure he made a decent amount he said he was making around $25 per hour and he said he wasn't making the most of the promotions either but he was putting in around 60 hours per week giving him $6000 a month. The guy was clued up but nothing too special he could comfortably beat anything up to $2/$5 and even there im sure he would win just at a much lower BB/100 rate (can't really say $ph there) anyway he was playing a tag game and getting into the cheap ones with the small pairs and AA crackers pretty straight forward play but an ability to read the play and the main asset you need out there, the ability to fold! I decided to play with this guy 3/4 sessions as i was asking all about how easy it is where he lives how much for that what promotions etc and i played a total of maybe 24 hours with him we shared the hands we had after the other had folded or after the hand and he said he couldn't find a leak and admitted avoiding spots with me.

I think if anything though you are all either underestimating the standard at $1-$1 and $1-$2 and or underestimating my ability as you also don't know that. Vegas is as expensive as you make it too. The apartments out there are $600 all bills included with wifi... that is a 5 minute walk to the bus stop and a 10/15 minute bus ride to center strip. The bus costs $65 for a monthly pass and the bus is 24 hours. there is a very large Albertsons store a 10 minute bus ride (same bus company) off strip to get things like cereals water and toiletries. Drinks even if it is water is $1 at the tables (if you go for water and sometimes i did you can ask for 2 bottles for you $1 tip). For food you would have a decent breakfast then you would need one meal as at the end of the day sitting on your ass does not burn you out and the players are so poor in general you don't really use much mental energy. with the amount in comps you would get for playing 50-70 or more however much you want as long as you make around 50 you'll get a minimum of $1ph and that is around 3 buffets in your week leaving 4 other days of which it would be hard to spend over $100 on eating for the week after your spend for breakfast (i have no desire for a candlelit dinner by myself). I will seek a gym as i am a sporty guy and i agree with the term healthy body healthy mind. I have been told once again on this same companies lovely bus route is an off strip gym that will cost around $50 a month. On gym days maybe a small healthy snack extra would be good but again not expensive. I will not be looking to do any tourist stuff really i have done just about all of the things i would want to do in Vegas. The only thing i may do is occasionally go to the showcase which you guessed it is cheap! I don't really drink in general and clubbing is not my scene so i wont be spending money on anything like that beside a few casual $1 beers at the table not enough to alter my decisions though. I have never played a slot machine in my life and i don't plan to and i have played black jack once and lost $15 after 20 mins and didn't really enjoy it. I know all these games are in favor of the house and it does not excite me losing money to them! I know in poker the house wins but I win when the tourists spaz out too.

I have been Vegas twice both times winning nicely over an accumulated 23 day stay, most recently was 1st Sept to today. I put in a fair amount of hours around 50-60 in this time whilst doing all the tourist stuff as well. i had just the one losing session at $1-$1 i lost a huge $35 and that was after i was already $140 up and a guy shipped a little shy of $200 in pre after some heavy action his AK cracked my AA via a K734K board this in no way tilted me i didn't even flinch i had planned to quit at 4 am this was 3.30am and i still quit i didn't chase my losses and there was no longer any real juicy fish left at the table that had become 7 handed.

As for stop loss i agree the only real reason is for tilt, i would only impose the stop loss on myself if i had any thoughts of say.. if i get this in i may be flipping and the pot would make me even... 95% of players will not play their A game when around 2 buy ins down if i feel that way i would get up take a long break play somewhere else unless i felt the same and i would be done for the day! However this would be rare with the passivity and transparency of this limits players i would find it hard to be down that much often, although im not so blinded to agree it will happen now and again.

A win target or whatever somebody called it is just purely retarded if you're winning then stay it means you're either playing really well, there are some seriously juicy players at the table or you're running good all 3 of which are the worst times to quit! Along with that the idea will be that im putting hours in anyway so stopping before when i have planned to (will play on if any of the above are happening until it ends). Also to make the promotions the hours are vital.

The trip i just had i didn't play the best i could, i played well but i also consumed a fair amount of beer on half the sessions, i didnt play as long as i could have due to having tourist stuff planned and it took 2/3 sessions for me to understand how to play optimally against the type of opponents that you regularly face which is very different to in England and to online. i managed to have an hourly rate of $24 per hour and i only played $1/$1 and i did not take advantage of any of the promotions beside getting around $100 in comps $2 per hour at Treasure Island and $1 per hour at the Quad.

Now i may have been 'running good' if you will but i took 2/3 big bad beats and made 4/5 huge lay downs all of them correct but if i have overestimated my $ per hour it can not be lower than $15 and thats without the promotions or comps. Promotions that are weekly freerolls i would hit at 4/5 different casinos accumulating in 16-20 per month with $200-$350 paid out on average to the top 10 and not all that many runners in them either.

This is a big response but please question anything you like.
 
S3mper

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We understand that you didn't ask if it's possible but members on the forums try to protect other members it's what makes this forum great when people are saying it is hard to achieve it's not "Fail!" It's more of getting you to really consider it before doing something like this...

On that note another thing is and one of the hardest things to overcome... When your only source of income is poker, poker becomes much harder every decision could mean a meal or rent later down the road.. Which really enforces tilt.

If you do it GL and I hope to see you down in Vegas =p
 
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I asked the question of "why you even asked?". If you can leave tomorrow and come back in three months up 15K why the hell haven't you done that already?

If you honestly think that you could safely make 15K in one trip then it boggles my mind as to what is holding you back. Worry about the reset time after. Until you have proven to yourself that 15K in three months is "safe" then all this hypothesising about going back and forth on a long term basis is exactly that - hypothesising. And it serves your goals absolutely nothing whatsoever.
 
S3mper

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Also don't forget about them taxes!! They eat up 30% of everything =(
 
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Poker is a funny game, I've never met anyone who can tell me they won everytime they sat down at a table, even if they play like Mr. Ivey , wish I had steel balls like you have young man,I'm hoping you go to Vegas and kick some bum (I think that's what you guys call it lol) enjoy you only live life once!!!!P.S keep a little common sense in your pocket and rub it every now an then just as a reminder !!!! GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
 
S3mper

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Poker is a funny game, I've never met anyone who can tell me they won everytime they sat down at a table, even if they play like Mr. Ivey , wish I had steel balls like you have young man,I'm hoping you go to Vegas and kick some bum (I think that's what you guys call it lol) enjoy you only live life once!!!!P.S keep a little common sense in your pocket and rub it every now an then just as a reminder !!!! GOOD LUCK!!!!!!

lol I don't know if rubbing whats in your pocket is good for luck... Whenever someone rubs what's in my pocket it leads to poor decision making and a 5 minute work out
 
bushy_lufc

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Well you have chosen the very top end of what i said, i said $3-$5k but anyway forget that i cannot do it straight away as i have a job and as much as '$15k' a month would be great.... if i can only do it say 2/3 times before i am told i can't keep bending the rules and entering the country then i am screwed as i would have to quite my job to do it....

So i am asking as it would be my job its not a short term thing.

s3mper i appreciate that people are looking out for me it is great but also its something that i think i would have to do instead of always wondering what if, if it 'breaks me' then i have lost my pride if anything but i can come back home and i can rebuild i wouldn't take everything i have there thats for sure.

I think though if i am going 3 months at a time i won't have to pay the taxes also how can they prove what i am winning? i could say that if i cash out for say $500 i bought in for $200 and reloaded a couple of times?
 
S3mper

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Well you have chosen the very top end of what i said, i said $3-$5k but anyway forget that i cannot do it straight away as i have a job and as much as '$15k' a month would be great.... if i can only do it say 2/3 times before i am told i can't keep bending the rules and entering the country then i am screwed as i would have to quite my job to do it....

So i am asking as it would be my job its not a short term thing.

s3mper i appreciate that people are looking out for me it is great but also its something that i think i would have to do instead of always wondering what if, if it 'breaks me' then i have lost my pride if anything but i can come back home and i can rebuild i wouldn't take everything i have there thats for sure.

I think though if i am going 3 months at a time i won't have to pay the taxes also how can they prove what i am winning? i could say that if i cash out for say $500 i bought in for $200 and reloaded a couple of times?

That's what we call tax invasion and I have no idea how taxes work for visitors,

There was an IRS agent (Internal Revenue Service) who went undercover and played poker to find the best way to tax poker players and he ended up quitting his job at the IRS an became a professional poker player.
 
punctual

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Hello all i currently live in England and as the title suggests i am looking to make a living in Vegas. I understand that you can only visit America 90 days at a time but my question is once that 90 days is up and i go back to England or any other country in say Europe how long is it i must wait to come back for another 90 days? Also is there a limit to how many times i can do this?

Thank you for any 'helpful' responses.

90 days should be more than enough time to lose your money...lol....

but on a real note, you had better make sure you are properly bankrolled...even if you do lose (likely if you are new), you will learn a lot from the experience for sure).
 
punctual

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There was an IRS agent (Internal Revenue Service) who went undercover and played poker to find the best way to tax poker players and he ended up quitting his job at the IRS an became a professional poker player.

That sounds like poker lore.....do you know his name by chance?
 
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