Alright, so here's the situation for y'all to analyze

So I got some Northerner playing at a casino with me and he thinks he's a yankee with a purpose. Well, anyhoo, I pick up Q10 on the button in an 8 hand game. All folds but one call (3/6 no limit blinds). So, anyway, I pop it to 30 hoping just to scoop and run. Small blind calls, big blind folds, original caller calls. We got ourselves a big ol' pot brewin'.

Flop: 9/J/2 rainbow
Betting: 1st player leads out with 40, second guy folds, I call

Turn: K, completes the rainbow (and my straight)
Betting: 1st player leads out with 240, I push all in for 800. He insta-calls.

River: J

He turns over J's full of 9's. Did I ever stand a chance of him foldin' or was he gonna stay on the rope for all the time?

You played the hand horribly...You make it 30 to try to take down a $15 pot?...then you call 40 after the flop comes trying to chase the straight... your a classic case of a donk...you probably think you got bad beat huh...

I dont see how he played it horribly; he raised with a medicore hand a position. Then flopped a decent draw hit, and got someone to commit when he was way ahead? Hows that horrible? Sounds like you guru are the classic case of an Ass who doesn't really know poker

Well that wasn't very nice. Opening raises in live poker are always a lot higher than online because people will call with any garbage..see the guy calling with J9. Then on the flop he was getting 3.4:1 to chase plus any implied odds that he thinks he can get on the following streets. Then he got all of his money in the pot with the nuts and got drawn out on on the river.

Yeah he played that horribly

wow did you read your statement? He raised with a medicore hand = BAD
Then flopped a decent draw hit = Hit nothing on the flop and continued to call the guy.

Its great that he got the guy to put all of his chips in when he was ahead but he played the the hand horribly as I stated...please dont talk about poker unless you know something about it.

Actually, the standard raise at the table was 5x, so therefore it wasn't a bad raise. Second of all, raising with a royal straight hand on the button isn't a bad play when there's only one live hand in play who most likely called with something like a connecting hand that was likely equivalent or worse to my hand. And yes, I called a bet of $40 to win $136. The odds are there, chief. Considering that I had at worst just my straight outs, I was 32% to win and I was calling 29% of the pot in order to win it. Add to that the implied odds, and the call was a no-brainer. I think its funny that your screen name is ThePokerGuru when it appears that you don't understand the simple concept of position raising, odds and implied odds.

well Im not the one that lost 1200....now am I?

Yeah, you're right. Losing money in any given hand is a definite sign of weakness in a poker player. Hey, remember when that loser Doyle Brunson lost $10,000 when he went out on Day 1 of the main event? What a bum!

Did you watch him play? He wasnt playing good at all.

Ok slow down guys. first of all we dont know what position villain was, im guessing mid late since he said all fold and one calls.
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the raise, Hero is in position, the limper has not shown any strength so why not raise and try to represent a hand? I think villain's limp/call is kind of weak with J9 personally.
Ok now 2nd part, Villain gets lucky and hits the flop, there is nothing wrong with the call here by hero since the pot was 96 ( if my calculations are correct) we are getting good odds to see the turn, we hit, we have a good shot at winning a nice pot, we miss, there is always the fold option.
Ok on the turn, I think the all in is fine here, and I also understand villain's call, with the 5x raise pre, he might of put us on AQ, AK,QK ( basically that range of hands) so he thinks he is still ahead and makes a reasonable call, and unfortanutely hits a 4 outer ( we didn't have him dominated whoever posted that earlier).
And last but not least, PokerGuru "please dont talk about poker unless you know something about it.", great advice maybe you should listen to yourself

unfortanutely we all can't be pros like you

when you at least make a final table in a wsop event, then you can talk about how good poker pros play ok?

So did you just join the forum to tell people how bad they play or what? He played the hand fine, the only questionable thing was his raise pre flop which really isn't that bad. The limp from the guy shows he probably doesn't have a big hand, either a small pair or some kind of connectors is probably. So a 5xBB raise should have gotten him out of the hand. If you think that he played this hand terribly you have a lot to learn.

I wouldn't say "horribly". QT on the button PF isn't the greatest to raise, but it isn't horrible. If he read the limper and blinds as tight, he may have gotten them to fold. Plus with 15 in the pot, a raise to 30 makes the pot 45. The first caller would have to call 24 or 27, which is worse than 2-1 pot odds. J9 was the one who made the bad PF play.

Hero then flops an OE draw with an over, which gives him about 3-1 on one card. By betting out 40, the villian gave 4-1 pot odds and the hero called correctly.

Hero turns a straight and re-raise pushes, of course.

Nothing "horrible" about anything, except the river card for our hero.

To answer the OP's question IMO: It would take a very, very disciplined player with a great read on you to fold his 2 pair on the turn with the pot being that size in a cash game. If a fold did happen, it would more likely happen in a tournament when a player couldn't rebuy.

BTW, "gurus" aren't usually so antagonistic. The mods can change any member's ID upon request.

Yes getting all in on the turn when you are a 91% favourite to double up is "horrible play".

As for the question...you weren't going to get him out of the hand at that stage. You raised preflop so QT doesn't jump out as likely and you'd probably play similar with AK/KQ/QQ/AA/AJ etc. Almost impossible to put you on a set either given the fact he has 2 pair and the other card is a deuce. So i'm pretty sure he figured he had your range pretty well covered.

He raised with position, you not know about position?

Its somewhat of a loose PFR, but whateva, I would have played it the same way. The poker guru is a nit maybe

I think it was almost perfect played, I would have played it exactly the same way unless the preflop raise, it was a little weak with one limper, you could have raised it to 36 ore 42 dollar.


It looks like your opponent was a calling station on that hand...

OP has a good hand, this is a bad hand...lol


SB was a tight aggressive player...


Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $95.40
SB: $100.00
Hero (BB): $101.70
UTG: $115.10
MP: $120.50
CO: $401.45

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 9:d 3:s
4 folds, SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $12, SB calls $8

Flop: ($24.00) K:d 4:d: 6:h (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14, SB calls $14

Turn: ($52.00) J:s (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($52.00) 3:h (2 players)
SB bets $14, Hero raises to $38, SB folds


Hero collected $77 from pot

Its hard for some people to understand that the result isn't everything. As a poker player if I can get as much money as possible when I am in serious lead I am happy.

Also I will be the guy selling 7.5-1 odds on Hero loosing next time you want to have a bet with me poker guru.

I realize I'm not an ancient veteran at CC yet, but what's up with some of these new people showing up being very obnoxious in their attacks on people (whether about hands or software) while simultaneously showing how completely ignorant they are about playing or studying and improving their game?

Because it's the internet, they don't come here to learn anything about poker they just want to show people how good they are and are already obviously making millions every week.

oh god, the irony

[x] thinly veiled beat

lol at northerners being yanks, guess im a yank

In answer to your actual question, if a particular player was to call a 5X raise being 1st to act on later streets then NO i don't think there is much chance at all that they are going to fold a hand that has hit the flop twice. He most probably believed he was miles in front on the turn while putting in his money anyway (hence the insta-call). It wasn't bad play by you just horrible river.

Guru's obviously the table police where he plays. There's always one that likes to tell everyone what's wrong with there play and thinks because a person loses the pot he must of made a mistake.
Doyle States, "It's not about winning or losing, it's about making correct decisions."
Anytime you get all your money in with the best on the turn it's the right decision.

Is it big difference in skill level on NL 100 compeared to NL 600 6max ?

I like q10 myself but it can get you into trouble like you found out.I wouldnt try to buy pots with it very often!Plus you got to watch out for us determined yankeess...lol..geraldo

this was obviously live, where 1knl is comparable to 100max online

if he's loose enough to call a $30 pf raise with J9, then he sure as hell is gonna take it to the river when he flops top 2 pr IMO, just a crappy spot to be in there man, very tuff hand, better luck to ya

btw remember that you dont want him to fold his 2pr when you have a straight, you want to get him to put in as much money as possible, because you will profit hugely in the long run (read: the one that matters)