5 Minutes of Your Time...

#1 7th May 2010, 7:22 PM

Hello all.

I am a student in my final year of University, and the topic for my dissertation (essay) is related to poker.

I would therefore sincerely appreciate 5 minutes of your time, to fill out this short questionnaire I have compiled.

All information collected will remain strictly confidential and not shared with anyone else. Although, the questions don't really ask you anything that could pose as a danger anyway.

Many thanks in advance.

Link to questionnaire: http://www.surveypirate.com/Survey.a...ZX7AkbeQ%3d%3d

Note: Please could you also inform me if you come across technical difficulties / discrepancies with the survey.

#2 7th May 2010, 7:23 PM

Link doesn't work

#3 7th May 2010, 7:28 PM

Thanks Pascal. Fixed....I hope

#4 7th May 2010, 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pascal LeFiscal

Link doesn't work

Works for me. I took it.

#5 7th May 2010, 7:36 PM

Thanks Stick, appreciated.

10,000 words I've gotta write for it lol....

#6 7th May 2010, 7:48 PM

All done. Do I get a lollipop?

#7 7th May 2010, 7:56 PM

Done my bit

#8 7th May 2010, 7:59 PM

All done mate gl with your paper.

#9 7th May 2010, 8:07 PM

"You are over-stimulated and therefore play non-skill based gambling games"

I had to stop when I read this!!!

#10 7th May 2010, 8:29 PM

Another BS survey that equates poker with gambling. Simplistic and naive. Took it anyway WTF...

#11 7th May 2010, 8:34 PM

Thanks to all for taking the questionnaire.

Stu..what made you have to stop when you read the over-stimulated part lol? That was taken from existing literature theory that someone conducted about gambling...

Makwa, go easy on me lad, I don't think that at all. It's just the topic I decided to do for my essay, as it's an interest of mine. I may find some interesting results, I may find f**k all lol.

Nevertheless, thanks.

#12 7th May 2010, 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutcho

Thanks to all for taking the questionnaire.

Stu..what made you have to stop when you read the over-stimulated part lol? That was taken from existing literature theory that someone conducted about gambling...

I think it was more the non-skilled based gambling games
I will take it tonight when I get home, gl.

#13 7th May 2010, 8:38 PM

Did my part. I found it a bit simplistic with pre-drawn conclusions. Would have been nice if it was a bit more open ended.

Also, hard to measure addiction when you don't ask how often we play vs. other forms of entertainment etc.

Good luck on your paper.

#14 7th May 2010, 8:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutcho

Thanks to all for taking the questionnaire.

Stu..what made you have to stop when you read the over-stimulated part lol? That was taken from existing literature theory that someone conducted about gambling...

Makwa, go easy on me lad, I don't think that at all. It's just the topic I decided to do for my essay, as it's an interest of mine. I may find some interesting results, I may find f**k all lol.

Nevertheless, thanks.

Poker is a game of skill rather than simply gambling. The questionnaire has a huge bias towards gambling rather than playing a game of skill.

Therefore I concluded at that point that you had designed a questionnaire for a game you didn't really understand.

I think its going to be difficult for you to draw accurate conclusions from your questionnaire if you don't understand the fundamentals of the game being played.

This is not to say that there are no poker players who are pure gamblers but as this is an internet forum which people use to improve their skill at poker you are aiming a questionnaire used to examine gambling habits at a group of people, the majority of whom, are playing a game of skill.

#15 7th May 2010, 8:47 PM

Thanks Pooffy.

Rabidus - I wanted to include more open ended questions, but my personal tutor, who is overseeing this dissertation, told me not to.

By no means is this just a random set of questions, I have thrown together out of no where. I have spent time on them.

Current theories already exist about:
Internet Addiction
General Gambling Addiction
Online Gambling Addiction

However, nothing, or scare information is dedicated to specific "Internet Poker Addiction".

Hence the nature of some of the questions. Thanks though, some of your comments will certainly be included in my evaluation.

#16 7th May 2010, 8:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutcho

Thanks Pooffy.

Rabidus - I wanted to include more open ended questions, but my personal tutor, who is overseeing this dissertation, told me not to.

By no means is this just a random set of questions, I have thrown together out of no where. I have spent time on them.

Current theories already exist about:
Internet Addiction
General Gambling Addiction
Online Gambling Addiction

However, nothing, or scare information is dedicated to specific "Internet Poker Addiction".

Hence the nature of some of the questions. Thanks though, some of your comments will certainly be included in my evaluation.

There you have it.

There is no provision within your questionnaire for games of skill.

#17 7th May 2010, 9:05 PM

Sorry, I gave up on the survey in frustration. I found that, in many cases, none of the possible answers represented an idea with which I could agree. Stu is correct. The survey is flawed because it starts from the highly dubious assumption that poker is gambling and the questions do not allow for the fact that respondents might hold a contrary view.

#18 7th May 2010, 9:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutcho

Hence the nature of some of the questions. Thanks though, some of your comments will certainly be included in my evaluation.

I will try and give you some idea as to why poker is different from other gambling activities.

The biggest problem with trying to explain why poker is a game of skill to a non-poker player is that in order for them to understand that that its a game of skill, you have to explain how to win at poker, and this is difficult to do because its a game that takes so long to learn, its impossible to sum it up into a single 1 hr lecture.

However, Dusty Schmit, in his book came up with a really neat way of showing the presence of skill. Rather than talking about winning, he turns the situation around and talks about losing!

If I put a gun to your head and told you that you must lose the next hand of poker, could you do it? Even if you held AA could you find a way to lose?... I think you could.. you might make a bad fold or something, but you could find a way.

What about a game like roulette? Could you find a way to lose there? Are you as a player able to influence the times that you lose? In this case no, you cannot do anything to make yourself more likely to lose than the odds dictate.

So when playing a game that you cannot increase the chances of losing you are purely gambling, but when playing a game where you can increase the chances of losing, you are playing a game of skill.

Then consider the flip side, if you can increase the chances of losing, you can also increase the chances of winning.

#19 7th May 2010, 9:14 PM

Completed....although I agree with Stu and Egon....poker is not gambling. There is a high amount of skill involved and over time a better player will ALWAYS beat a worse player. This is not true in other forms of gambling, because it is based off of complete luck.

#20 7th May 2010, 9:16 PM

"If I put a gun to your head and told you that you must lose the next hand of poker, could you do it? Even if you held AA could you find a way to lose?... I think you could.. you might make a bad fold or something, but you could find a way."

I'm in the BB and everyone folded.

I'm dead.

#21 7th May 2010, 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

However, Dusty Schmit, in his book came up with a really neat way of showing the presence of skill. Rather than talking about winning, he turns the situation around and talks about losing!

If I put a gun to your head and told you that you must lose the next hand of poker, could you do it? Even if you held AA could you find a way to lose?... I think you could.. you might make a bad fold or something, but you could find a way.

What about a game like roulette? Could you find a way to lose there? Are you as a player able to influence the times that you lose? In this case no, you cannot do anything to make yourself more likely to lose than the odds dictate.

So when playing a game that you cannot increase the chances of losing you are purely gambling, but when playing a game where you can increase the chances of losing, you are playing a game of skill.

Then consider the flip side, if you can increase the chances of losing, you can also increase the chances of winning.

I haven`t heard that before. That`s an elegant explanation.

#22 7th May 2010, 9:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantafalcons0

"If I put a gun to your head and told you that you must lose the next hand of poker, could you do it? Even if you held AA could you find a way to lose?... I think you could.. you might make a bad fold or something, but you could find a way."

I'm in the BB and everyone folded.

I'm dead.

LOL

Well you get the idea, you can increase your chances of losing.

#23 7th May 2010, 9:26 PM

Thanks for your input Egon.

Stu - very well said, and I completely understand and agree with you. I even had similar talks with my tutor about how elements of skill are needed in poker.

However, he insisted that this was the questionnaire that I should post out. I think it was more a sense of "I can't be bothered any more" from his side.

As he will be the one marking my work, I can always refer back to his insistence of sending this specific questionnaire, should he mark me lower than what I expect to get.

Thanks Wes also.

#24 7th May 2010, 9:31 PM

I don't want to click on the link for fear that it may be a virus....

Oh wait, I'm on my roommate's computer.. I'll take the survey.

#25 7th May 2010, 9:34 PM

As a matter of curiousity, what are you reading Hutch ? You must be close to graduating. Do you have a career in mind ?

#26 7th May 2010, 9:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortis

I don't want to click on the link for fear that it may be a virus....

Oh wait, I'm on my roommate's computer.. I'll take the survey.

You are clearly not up for gambling, then.

#27 7th May 2010, 9:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egon Towst

You are clearly not up for gambling, then.

lol

#28 7th May 2010, 9:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egon Towst

As a matter of curiousity, what are you reading Hutch ? You must be close to graduating. Do you have a career in mind ?

Studying "Information Studies" Egon.

It's a mixture of more literature based modules, such as how information is used and portrayed etc, and more technical modules, some of which have included, database design, website design, and adobe flash design.

I leave in around 3 weeks, and not sure what I will be doing yet. Probably a year out to relax and get a part time job for steady income. Play a bit of poker too of course

#29 7th May 2010, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutcho

Studying "Information Studies" Egon.

It's a mixture of more literature based modules, such as how information is used and portrayed etc, and more technical modules, some of which have included, database design, website design, and adobe flash design.

I leave in around 3 weeks, and not sure what I will be doing yet. Probably a year out to relax and get a part time job for steady income. Play a bit of poker too of course

You might consider Librarianship. It sounds as though your degree might be good grounding for that, and I happen to know that there is a shortage currently of good people to manage books and other information resources in the larger and more academically-inclined secondary schools.

#30 7th May 2010, 10:18 PM

That survery had nothing to do with poker. I still did it though

#31 7th May 2010, 11:02 PM

very nice survey, totally enjoyed it.

#32 8th May 2010, 12:37 AM

Since I saw the phrase "non-poker" a lot and since I don't consider poker to be gambling, I just answered the questions as if none of it related to poker.

Folks need to relax and give this kid a break.

#33 8th May 2010, 1:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

I will try and give you some idea as to why poker is different from other gambling activities.

The biggest problem with trying to explain why poker is a game of skill to a non-poker player is that in order for them to understand that that its a game of skill, you have to explain how to win at poker, and this is difficult to do because its a game that takes so long to learn, its impossible to sum it up into a single 1 hr lecture.

However, Dusty Schmit, in his book came up with a really neat way of showing the presence of skill. Rather than talking about winning, he turns the situation around and talks about losing!

If I put a gun to your head and told you that you must lose the next hand of poker, could you do it? Even if you held AA could you find a way to lose?... I think you could.. you might make a bad fold or something, but you could find a way.

What about a game like roulette? Could you find a way to lose there? Are you as a player able to influence the times that you lose? In this case no, you cannot do anything to make yourself more likely to lose than the odds dictate.

So when playing a game that you cannot increase the chances of losing you are purely gambling, but when playing a game where you can increase the chances of losing, you are playing a game of skill.

Then consider the flip side, if you can increase the chances of losing, you can also increase the chances of winning.

While this is certainly an elegant explanation of poker, I'd say it's fundamentally flawed. The definition of gambling you are using means that every possible outcome must be random - there must be no way to use skill to influence the game to lose.

Let's take a slightly wider definition of gambling - betting on an outcome of which you are uncertain. While there are obviously situations in poker when you know you have the best hand, there are plenty of times when you do not, and at the beginning of a hand you never know whether your hand is going to be the best. You entire the pot uncertain of the outcome.

Regardless, I still like that definition, even if it is a bit misleading

#34 8th May 2010, 1:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantafalcons0

"If I put a gun to your head and told you that you must lose the next hand of poker, could you do it? Even if you held AA could you find a way to lose?... I think you could.. you might make a bad fold or something, but you could find a way."

I'm in the BB and everyone folded.

I'm dead.

LOOOL!
online for sure !but live, hmm...where's Oz? If I open up a card making it look like an accident, can I reject my hand or induce the small blind to raise me or something ?

#35 9th May 2010, 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pascal LeFiscal

While this is certainly an elegant explanation of poker, I'd say it's fundamentally flawed. The definition of gambling you are using means that every possible outcome must be random - there must be no way to use skill to influence the game to lose.

Let's take a slightly wider definition of gambling - betting on an outcome of which you are uncertain. While there are obviously situations in poker when you know you have the best hand, there are plenty of times when you do not, and at the beginning of a hand you never know whether your hand is going to be the best. You entire the pot uncertain of the outcome.

Regardless, I still like that definition, even if it is a bit misleading

Well said... got some bright minds in here...

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