Yay! My Harrington Cash Game books arrived!

I pre-ordered them, because of the discount, plus they took Paypal and I had money in the Paypal account that I didn't know what to do with. Plus, after the tourney books I knew that I was going to want them.

So far, so good. Starts right off talking about the difference between playing the same hand in tournaments situations vrs cash game hands with some examples, then into stack sizes factoring into implied odds affecting starting hand selection, .....


I liked the writing style and their ability to emphasize key aspects in the tourney books, as well as how they structure the writing so as to build on and around the most important things so that everything else flows out of these key elements, and the cash book seems the same so far.

*pouts*

I want those so bad...so you got them from amazon, or elsewhere?

Mine don't even ship until the 11th (ordered a book not released yet with them).

$22.01 each.

Discussion about these books ad nauseum on the 2 + 2 forum. I got mine a week ago and have had no time. I'm only to chapter 3 in volume 1.

True to Harrington form, very good so far!

I think it was 2+2, or some site connected with them that had a pre-order discount deal.

I guess being in Canada it took a little longer to get here than the States, or that's my assumption since I've read some of the 2+2 discussion and people seem to have had theirs for a week or so.

Just got an email from amazon...... shipped today ....... bout time.

I've had them for just over a week now and they're very well written but I haven't been able to come to terms with a few things yet. Dan suggests folding medium and small pps unless you're getting 20:1 implied odds or better. Seems WAY excessive. Also some of his randomizing suggestions seem like too much overkill (at least for the micro limits). I have heard that the section in Vol. 2 on playing weak games more accurately details playing the games a lot of us are used to, so I may jump over and read that before finishing the rest.

Amazon.ca keeps delaying mine They started out with an expected delievery date of April4 and now they are at the beginning of May.

Hm, I'm not sure whether to buy them or not; I'll tag this topic for readers' opinions.

Rofl.....Is there a if on that ore something?

If not, harrington simplifies cash game to much.

Patiently (screw that, impatiently) waiting on mine to ship... can't wait to read these.



//thread derailment!



I've actually been wondering about this lately..curious what he has to say. I'm not sure 20:1 is necessary but I'm also not sure that the "12:1" that is commonly accepted is all that great either. I have a hard time getting paid off on low sets often enough + the times I lose to a straight/flush/higher set to sometimes make me wonder what this number really should be to maximize profit.

How do you play these preflop, Tygran?


I've watched some old vids of someone playing $10, 25, and 50NL who normally played 100 or 200, and he raised every pair preflop, much like Chuck seems to be heading towards in his recent vids. The advantage is that when you hit, you've already started building the pot.

Ed Miller suggested not eliminating the possibility of minraising these and suited connectors preflop, thereby building the pot when you hit while still keeping players in to improve your implied odds.


I haven't gotten to that section of Harrington's book yet.

Might need to add these to my small collection

A little further into Vol 1 now and I have gone ahead to read the weak games section from Vol 2. Harrington's number for the implied odds needed (20:1) is explained like this: Harrington claims that you'll only win someone's stack ~1 of 3 times you hit your set, so if the odds of hitting a set is 7 to 1 or so you need implied odds 3 times greater to set mine.

I think a lot of people are going to take issue with several points in these books. Here's the most recent I read. In the section on playing certain hands post flop Harrington recommends check/folding KK about 12% of the time on a flop of 10d 9c 8c.

I'm actually more in chucks camp.. if I'm opening the action I find it far better to raise it with a low pair than just limp it. Minraising them is an interesting idea... I might try that. I hate just flat calling with 44 when it's raised say 3xbb in front of me and it ends up being the raiser and me (everyone else folds). You very well may need closer to 20:1 implied to make that call profitable enough.

Yeah, and minraising would stick out like a sore thumb at a lot of games.

The problem I have with not raising low pairs is that the have such weak value post flop when you miss and you've called someone's raise as you say. Especially if you've limp/called OOP.

Yeah agreed...minraising small pairs isn't something you could do all the time or even alot of the time...could be an interesting randomizer play to throw in on occasion though.

I do not like the minraise option for the main reason that a raise with pockets isn't necessarily just to build the pot for when you win. The problem with limping them and getting into a multi-way pot is that people need to hit a big hand to play, even bad players know that. If you're in a 5-way pot you're not going to commit a lot of chips with top pair bad kicker (which is likely because of the limp preflop, they probably don't have a great kicker). So basically you only get paid off by 2-pair/higher and lower sets or the idiot who once in awhile decides his top pair is good enough to stack multiway. If you raise, you win the pot from the crap hands, who weren't giving you implied odds anyway, and you get called by the good hands, as well as isolate most of the time. If you raise and it's heads up, you're opponent is going to most of the time be feeling great about his TPTK if he hits it.

The second good part of doing this is that you can win the pot without hitting the set. When you raise and your opponent misses, depending on opponent, they will likely fold to a cbet.

And this is why I think the following is flawed:

Because you're not just going for the set. I'd almost go as far as to say that 1 of 3 is a huge over-estimation of how often you'll stack your opponent when you hit a set. Now you may get action 1 of 3 times, but not even close to that often will you get a stack. But the big thing is, if you are raising pocket pairs preflop, you're likely to take it down with a cbet. If he misses, you win the pot. If he hits and you miss he wins the preflop pot plus your cbet. If you both hit big, you take his stack. I think you win out in that game. Now EP I'm limping this most of the time, just because I do not want to be re-raised preflop and if I get several other limpers I only need to get another 3-4 BB's into the pot when I hit to have odds.



I'd like to know where he came up with 12%, and I'd like to know the context as well. Is this in your standard weak online game? Or a game full of pros? I'd also ask that question in the set mine hand. If your opponent is likely to recognize betting patterns and put you on a similar hand that you have and push you out even when they miss, or otherwise outplay you postflop, you do need much better odds to call preflop. If you're playing against your average online opponents, where they don't do too much advanced reading and they don't vary their play enough to make it tough to read them (especially with PAHUD), you can get away with playing a lot more hands more aggressively, making them make decisions giving both more opportunity for them to make mistakes and giving you more opportunities to get a read. If I'm sitting at the HSP table, well first off I'm cashing out and retiring lol, but in all seriousness I'd have to play considerably tighter and maybe use that image to try to pick up pots preflop. But you don't want to be making moves and decisions against players who are going to most likely outplay you. You do want to be doing this and forcing opponents to do this against players you know you are better than.

Rofl....I think he got that number from tournies...

But I like his thinking

The context of the majority of the book is toward a table full (or mostly full) of solid players (not your everyday micro limit online table). The 12% it figured like this: on the flop described he recommends checking 40% of the time and then folding 30% of the time our opponent bets after our check.

I honestly think that the section of the book this example was taken from is the weakest part of these books. Not necessarily because of the recommendations are bad but just the way the information is presented.

Funny story...

I was checking amazon tracking information about 30 minutes ago (I wasn't expecting them till middle of this week or later) and it says "delivered on 4/11"...

Yeah, my neighbors probably think I'm crazy running out to the mailbox at midnight in shorts (it's cold here!).

I went to my mailbox hoping to get my books and all I got was this stinkin' $90 cheque from the government. It's just not fair I tell ya.

Amazon.ca says my books are like 2 towns away, like a half an hour drive..They better be here tomorrow

Just found out pokerstars' FPP store is selling them so I nabbed both of them up immediately. I'm guessing the FPP store's delivery will actually be a lot quicker than amazon, heh

Can't wait for em

I don't see them listed... sold out? They have the tourney versions of course.

Poker Books - Poker Stars VIP Store

Right at the bottom of the books section.

Yay, just got them ordered

Where did you order yours from?

Ive been looking all over since Amazon seems only to have them from overseas sellers

Mine came this morning - weeeeeee

Amazon had a new load in, so i ordered Monday pm, arrived Thursday am.