When to Chop?

I was playing in a home tournment that started with 29 people and a $35 buy-in. For the first time I made it to heads up play with a good player. 1st paid ~$420, 2nd paid ~$270. I had a slight chip lead when we started heads up play. The other play asked if I wanted to chop and declair me the winner. I said that I have never been in the chip leader position so I wanted to play on. Four hands latter, I called his all-in with my set of 8s and he hit the flush on the river. Five hands later, I busted out.

The question I have is if you are almost even in chips, should you always take the chop??

Thanks,

i normally take the chop if i know the player is better than me and that we are very close in chips, but i will never chop if my chip lead is 2-1 or better, and i would love a chop if i was shortstacked, but the player would never want that....

i personally do not like the chop....you come this far just to chop up the winnings? doesnt seem worth it to me...

Depends: how did you assess your ability in regards to this. Also, what were the blinds in relation to each of your stacks? You could have a 3:1 advantage at 6K to 2K, but if the blinds are 800/400, you really are not that far ahead...

that does bring up a good point...never really thought about blinds and stuff like that

Right-- sometimes the blinds get so high in relation to individual stacks, that it is pretty much a crap shot who wins: chop it up

I have talked with several poker frineds and they all agree that it would hve been the right move to chop. I got caught up in the excitement and ending up loseing some money, but still had a good night and I did learn something too.
Thanks for the info....

I'd have been more inclined to negotiate something like a 60:40 split then keep playing... still a good return either way, and still something to play for. Depends if they're amenable to a deal like that though.

Watched several Sunday Million - PokerStars Final Tables...and Usually it goes to Chip count #'s and leave a % to the Winner.
Some Players will want to wait until there are 4 players left, some 3.
It depends on how many hours the Event has been going on, and the ratio of the Stacks.
If 3 Players all have 6.5 Mill. Stacks and it has been going on for almost an hour of swapping Blinds around usually fatigue will entice them to consider a Chop.
Anything can Happen at that point so they Usually agree to a deal.
In the Sunday Million for instance, when the difference between 3rd place cash and 1st is roughly 15K to a $100,000 pay-out and the winner taking say $135,000 and 3rd place making $96,000 due to the (set aside for winner amount) A Chop is the wisest choice.

Daniel Negreanu I have read he will 'NEVER' chop or discuss deals, as his RULE.
Some Players will only Chop when heads up and may only agree when 'They' have the Chip Lead in the Chip Count #'s department.
Some Players if they believe they can Win-It-All and have a 3-1 lead over the next stack they usually want a 'Cherry' on top of the Chop over-and above the (Set aside for winner amount)

Never been there myself to make a deal, but have seen several in process and assisted in players getting help for a deal and gave them the #'s estimate of what they'd be looking at when support did get there.

~Go with your gut instincts, and avoid losing more than you'd win - IF YOU LOST~ (if that makes any sense to you)

Here is an example of a Pokerstars Sunday Million Deal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dealer: plasticard finished the tournament in 5th place
*NOTE* this guy was 2nd in Chips and he refused to do a deal^^(oops)
Lee Jones [Support]: Well done plastic - you're taking home over $59K
Dealer: Zutzman has timed out - hand is folded
Pehtoori: support?
Dealer: Player Pehtoori has requested TIME
Dealer: The break will start when the current hand finishes
Dealer: Game #11213030503: GARBANZITO wins pot (480000)
Administrator: The tournament has been manually paused for deal discussion.
Pehtoori: chip deal please
lb6121: .....
Lee Jones [Support]: hang on guys - Mike and I are checking our numbers
Pehtoori: thank you
Lee Jones [Support]: Okay...
Lee Jones [Support]: $30K for the winner
Lee Jones [Support]: Zutz: $122,538
Lee Jones [Support]: Pehtoori: $134,484
Lee Jones [Support]: lb: $157,964
Lee Jones [Support]: GARBANZITO: $122,811
Lee Jones [Support]: say "agree" if you do
Pehtoori: agree
GARBANZITO: AGREE
lb6121: agree none of us are mugs here
lb6121: we all pros might as well deal now
lb6121: the fish is gone best case senario
Zutzman: say it....
lb6121: agree
Lee Jones [Support]: folks - let's just wait for zutz to say yes or no
Zutzman: i agree.
lb6121: sweet
Lee Jones [Support]: okay, we've got a deal.
Lee Jones [Support]: now there's $30K in the middle to win - good luck all.

I'd just like to point out that if you had a set and he was drawing to a flush with only one card to come then you made the right play and would win it all in the long run there so don't feel so bad about it.

Thanks for all the input..
I was happy to have won second place and as I said I did learn some things that night...
I had fun.. made a little money and learned something...
all in all... a good evening...

I never chop. I did consider it once when everyone was real tired at the finish of a Midnight Madness match but we played it out. I suppose I should never say never. Does that help? Now I'm lost. Never mind............

i will always chop if its choped buy chip percentage

I really don't mind chopping...but it depends on where we both are at...

I once played a home game tournament that took all day...got heads up and the first thing we said to each other was "Wanna chop?"

We got so exhausted taking everyone out that we didn't wanna play anymore...it was kinda funny too.

So yeah, it depends on where you guys are at, chip stacks and what not.

Nice post Flops, caught the flavor quite nicely.

A great follow up here would be a step by step procedure to get the PS support Staff as fast as possible. It is often the case that they take so long to respond, the original conditions which prompted the player to chop have changed.

I also wonder if a disinterested 3rd party, i.e. observer, can notify PS staff on behalf of the players once it looks clear a deal is doable. This could save time.

I would say that's still pretty far ahead. If you took all the skill out of the game at that point and played every hand to its conclusion all-in, you're still going to win 75% of the time.

Wrong. You don't understand "independent chip modeling" (or stack size vis a vis blinds, i.e., effective "M").

Assuming a $100 prize pool that pays the top three (as in a $10 sng), $50/$30/$20-- there is $80 left for the last two players. If player one has 6000 chips and player two has 2000 chips their respective equity is $45 and $35 (NOT $75/$25).

That's not even taking into account the blinds being so high that neither player has an effective stack of any kind.

Here and here and here and here and here are some free ICM calculators and tools you might find useful.

I have assisted in notifying Suport at one Final Table that I played in, and they cut me $9 from the winner's pool since neither of them knew how, and they were trading chips back and forth and were getting tired.
One said they had to go shortly, so I (observ. chat) to chop...
They asked it they could..So I did the #'s for them approximately and contacted support. They traded Blinds back and forth by both sitting out.

*Note*
Players should mention 'Want to do a Deal?' before agreeing to trade Blinds w/o each sitting out...as they may view that as Chip dumping..

When emailing support - Put -Urgent-Chop Request in the Subject box,
Then list the Tournament ID#
Buy-In Stakes
the Players involved
and that they have requested Support by you, the 3rd party.

* I have also emailed Support and suggested having a 'Request Support' Button in Options during a Final Table. *

~I have another Sunday Million Deal Saved that I will Post from this Last Sunday. As this points out "Bargaining" and 'prying' a few extra Thousand.~

* OK - I Edited out some but here's the Basic*
Everyone in the Deal has near 15 Million in Chips
Leader has 19 Million
2nd has 17.5 Million
3 & 4 have 15 Million each

Administrator: .The tournament has been paused to allow the remaining players to discuss a deal.
TeamWispy: prop chop?
TeamWispy: anyone?
dh3684: whats that?
TeamWispy: chip chop
hansou: j want to see
Haligon: how bout we count out a chip chop minus the 30k of course and see where that gets us
Haligon: say agree if you agree
TeamWispy: i agree to see the numbers
hansou: me too
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: dh, a "chip chop" is when you divide the remaining prize pool according to your chip equity.
dh3684: me to
TeamWispy: yes
TeamWispy: we would like to see that
dh3684: yes
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: ok, here are the chip chop numbers, leaving $30k on the side for the winner:
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: TeamWispy: $93,830
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: hansou: $87,875
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: dh: $88,396
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: Haligon: $98,181
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: plus $30k for first place. Say "agree" if you do.
TeamWispy: i agree
hansou: agree
dh3684: agree
Haligon: hmmmmmm
hansou: lol
Haligon: ill take 110 if evberyone gives up 4k <--(Chip Leader by 2 Mill.)
TeamWispy: lol
TeamWispy: i will give u .39 cents (This guy is a Riot!)
hansou: agree or not
Haligon: i feel good about this, not sure if that a good deal for me
dh3684: ok
Haligon: stil playing for 30 so not a big deal 4 (He means 4K each!!)
Haligon: wsipy no go?
TeamWispy: i will agree to the original deal
TeamWispy: im not gonna just give away my equity
hansou: so do i
Haligon: risking more playing
hansou: so do you
Haligon: not as mujch as you
TeamWispy: 4k dollars is a lot of money
Haligon: yeah but you never traded percentage with someone?
hansou: ok for max 2000
TeamWispy: hansou and dh can give 2000 to haligon
TeamWispy: ill chip in my .39 like i said <---
hansou: dh what do you think
Haligon: ill do it if wispy chips in 2k
dh3684: agree to 2000
TeamWispy: if they wanna pony up 1k for my 2k then im down
TeamWispy: but ill take my 93,800
Haligon: wispy its a good deal, coulda been 50 less people entered
TeamWispy: lol
TeamWispy: u act like ur the only one he has a stake in this
Haligon: no i just think that the way it stands its a good deal'
Haligon: told my buddy i wouldnt do less then 110
Haligon: but im willing to do 104 thats fine
TeamWispy: well guess its up to them to give u 12k then
Haligon: your a good player, but so am i and i think your value lies in making this deal
TeamWispy: take their 4k
dh3684: let's vote
TeamWispy: then u have over 100k
TeamWispy: and we all play for 30
TeamWispy: and u can tell ur friend u won 130
Haligon: lol...u angry for someone whos about to win 90k
Haligon: cmon its a good deal
TeamWispy: im not angry
TeamWispy: so is what am saying
dh3684: lets vote or play
TeamWispy: just take their money and ill take u out to dinner at the PCA or something
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: There is no "vote" dh... either you all agree or there is no deal.
Haligon: this guy, not sure if i wanna go to dinner with you anymore
Haligon: ok ill take it thats fine
Haligon: 2k from the other two
TeamWispy: i agree to that
dh3684: agree
hansou: i agree
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: hansou & dh, you are both willing to give up $2k?
hansou: yes
dh3684: yes
hansou: lets resume
Haligon: ok gl
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: ok, I am going to restate the numbers. After I do, say "agree"
hansou: i have30 k to make
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: Wispy: $93,830
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: hansou: $85,875
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: dh: $86,396
hansou: agree gl
TeamWispy: agree
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: Haligon: $102,181
Haligon: agree
dh3684: agree
TeamWispy: agree
StaffMikeJ [Supervisor]: ok, here we go...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Haligon Won 1st
TeamWispy 2nd
hansou 3rd
dh3684 4th

I remember one guy was a a 2:1 chip dog and wanted to do a $200k-$210k chop. Poor guy got ridiculed on forums for a while after that.

I'll chop heads up, rarely three way, but to be honest, this is cmoing from a guy whose never played in a tourney where the difference between 2nd/3rd was pretty enough to think about it.