What do solid TAGs call 3-bets with in position (6max)?

So while we were talking about 3-betting in a HA thread, I figured I'd raise this question. Here goes:

You're playing 6-max, $0.1-$0.25 or $0.25-$0.50 NLHE (since that's about the median stakes I think most players around here play).

A regular player at this limit running 20/14 opens on the button for 4xBB's.

We're in the big blind (assume we have an unknown image), and we 3-bet to 14xBB's. What is our villain flat-calling our raise with?

This is stolen from another forum, so I'm kinda curious what range you put our button-raising villain on when he flat calls.

AK off or QQ-1010...

Depends on stack sizes. He might play that way with a small pair or suited connectors if both of you had enough chips behind that he would be well paid if he hit.

Assuming 100 BB stacks. Der.

Borderline, then. He would be mathematically incorrect to call with the hands I described, but not by much and might do so anyway if he thought you could be bullied off the pot on a later street.

^ this, I think. Maybe AKs / AQs as well.

Wouldn't QQ/AK 4-bet?

QQ for sure, AK depends on particular opponent (I for one like to call a 3-bet with AK IP). But even so that range described above is RIDICULOUSLY tight. Assuming he is a solid TAG, his ATS here has to be at least 25%. So given the range described above, which constitutes 2.3% of hands, plus AA/KK which is another 0.9%, he's only continuing with 3.2% of all hands, which make up a whopping 12.8% of his range. Do you honestly think he's folding 87% of a time to a 3-bet?

Something like this might be a little more realistic :

JJ-88,AQs-AJs,KQs,QJs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,AQo+,KQo

ATM I'm playing 100nl 6max with stats of 20/18/3, my calling range otb varies a lot depending on how I'm running and villains etc. But it may be something like 88-TT, 89s+ upto KQs.

Most of the time I'm 4 betting JJ+, AK here all day long, maybe AQs. Occasionally I may mix it up and flat with these hands, but very occasionally.

BTW just a caveat, I dont call too much tbh.

That's a pretty wide range... You think he's calling with that many suited connectors? In my experience a good player isn't calling too many 3-bets.

The point I'm trying to get at is what kind of hands should we be 3-betting preflop against a solid player who steals a regular %.

While hands like KJ/KQ are ahead of their stealing range, they don't fair well against a TAG's calling range.

So should our range be really polarized to monsters & implied odds hands?

On a related note, against light 3-bettors, I've started toying with just calling with AA/KK. The pot is big enough that I can still get it all in on three streets and I'm in position. Very effective against people who 3-bet light but fold to a 4-bet.

But don't we want to 4-bet bluff light 3-bettors? If we flat call with QQ+ and show it down, that pretty much wrecks any attempts we have at 4-betting as a re-re-steal.

For 10$ NL, I'll admit, it doesn't matter. I've only ever made 1 4-bet bluff the whole time I've been playing those limits (it worked too ). But at higher limits, I could see it being worked into my game more often.

Two points:

1. 4-betting light is not really necessary as a strategy up to and including $200NL. I don't know when/if it becomes a big deal, but not at the levels I've played. If people 3-bet you light too often, they're going to get themselves in trouble simply by 3-betting light too often and ending up losing their investment when you have a big hand.

2. In position, I'm going to call a 3-bet more often than I'm going to 4-bet. It's more important for me to retain the possibility of having AA in my range when I call the 3-bet, than it is for me to make sure they know I can have it when I 4-bet.

On top of this, also, lies the fact that pocket aces are rare, getting them on the button even rarer, and someone 3-betting me with them once I open with them on the button rarer still. Although it's happened a few times in the past few weeks, it's not often enough that I think people are going to start noticing too soon.

It might be a little wide, it was like 3a.m. and I wasn't paying all that much attention. Still, much more realistic than whatever was outlined before.

And yes, your 3-betting range should be polarized. 3-betting medium strength hands essentially turns them in to bluffs.

elaborate...

jhfdjhgf

so a TAG is gonna come in raising with 109s 98 87 and callin a repop with it??

i play tight, and if i raise with QQ here and get reraised, i flat call to see the flop and what it holds..(particularly the A or K huh?)

if i came in for a standard raise with 56s 109s or even QJ/J10 s/o, and get repopped for that amount, u gotta seriously think ur beat and u gotta hit the flop just right, like 25% of the time. to me that would be just spewing off $$ unless the reraiser is just a total maniac and u can outplay him on the flop but most maniacs and CS are calling u down with A hi...oh well

Well considering I play a slightly tighter style than outlined in the OP, I play like 17/14, and my 3-bet calling range on the button is similar to what I outlined. Obviously it varies greatly depending on the opponent. I already admitted what I said before was probably too wide facing an unknown opponent, but my problem with your range is that it constitutes way too little of the total raising range, making a 3-bet virtually un-exploitable.