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Poker - Views on this one?
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#1
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Views on this one?
Early - no info - it's a folder right?
...though in practice, I think some of us would choose to call/raise at least some of the time. If you decided not to fold here - explain why. Would you often call/raise in a similar situation? Would it depend and if so on what would it depend? Your mood? I'm not asking for views on cash games, short-handed tables etc, just on this particular situation. PokerStars Game #17294638829: Tournament #87654283, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/05/08 - 19:02:07 (ET) Table '87654283 1' 9-max Seat #5 is the button Seat 1: juju1ner (1290 in chips) Seat 2: Grob_Andre (1490 in chips) Seat 3: DRoar8475 (1470 in chips) Seat 4: 7letters (1960 in chips) Seat 5: Nettech63 (1410 in chips) Seat 6: gordy74 (1220 in chips) Seat 7: inakika (1060 in chips) Seat 8: Dolfan1213 (2760 in chips) Seat 9: aejele (840 in chips) gordy74: posts small blind 10 inakika: posts big blind 20 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to 7letters [ ]Dolfan1213: folds aejele: calls 20 juju1ner: calls 20 Grob_Andre: folds DRoar8475: folds 7letters: raises 80 to 100 Nettech63: folds gordy74: calls 90 inakika: raises 960 to 1060 and is all-in aejele: folds juju1ner: folds 7letters: folds gordy74: folds inakika collected 340 from pot inakika: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 340 | Rake 0 Seat 1: juju1ner folded before Flop Seat 2: Grob_Andre folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: DRoar8475 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: 7letters folded before Flop Seat 5: Nettech63 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: gordy74 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 7: inakika (big blind) collected (340) Seat 8: Dolfan1213 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: aejele folded before Flop __________________ |
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#3
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I'll go along with that WVHillBilly.
I asked this question elsewhere recently and got differing views - can't say I thought either view was especially wrong. The flip side of the argument was that it's an instant fold and that we should use our skill to win this game rather than rely on luck so early in the game. It's a 27 seat sng..I don't know whether the buyin should be a consideration or not. Any more views? |
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#4
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Remember he could have Ax and be the one who needs to get lucky. Unless he has AA/KK you'll win half of the time he has a pair. I've never played beyond $20 SnGs but I wouldn't fold this at any level I've ever played.
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#9
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I am pretty much on the same side as everyone else and I am really tight to start a game (forget I said this if you are playing against me). However, I would shove this in an instant. Maybe he has AA or KK but I would put him on a smaller pair or Ax where he has to improve to beat you. My only reservation is that if we lose this hand we are out before the seat gets warm, but if we're in it to win...I call.
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#10
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To call or fold should be based on the structure of the tournament. I'm guessing, but given it is a 27 sng I don't see this being a long drawn out contest that gives you the luxury of folding AK. The argument that you should fold and use skill would be fine in a long drawn out marathon tournament, but in a relatively short SNG luck will inevitably play a bigger factor.
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#11
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If you fold that hand in that situation, then what are you gonna call with? AA only? Because if you fold AK like this you're sure he has AA or KK, and therefore you must fold KK too because then his range is only AA, right? =)
Calling here is not luck based, you're clearly ahead of his range, which, with no reads, you have to assume consists of half the pairs and big aces. Think about it this way: if you fold this hand here, it's profitable to re-raise you everytime with any two cards, since you'll be folding everything but big pairs, which you won't get enough times to compensate... |
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#12
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Quote:
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#13
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ARGH NO IT IS NOT |
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#15
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Of COURSE it is 'luck based'. Any all-in call preflop is luck based. When someone posts about their AK loss to the 5,7soooooted, one of the most common replies is 'better luck next time'. As the all-in villain, you would have no idea what I folded. Maybe AA, maybe 3,8o, so it would not be 'profitable' to re-raise me every time, unless your strategy is to go all-in every hand. We're also talking about the diff between folding to an all-in pf and a call to a raise NOT involving an all-in pf. Money does make a difference too. If it were Chris Ferguson (or any other high stakes player) playing a $5 SnG, yea, they probably would instacall. When it's MY $5, it's an instafold. |
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#16
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this implies that the stakes you are playing are too high for you. you should have no problems financially making +cEV plays such as getting in with AK preflop in a $5 SNG. consider re-evaluating your BRM guidelines
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#17
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Really? So an A or a K will hit on EVERY hand? And when it doesn't it will ALWAYS hold up?
Sorry, but depending on the situation. I might not throw all of my chips in the pot while praying that I hit an A or a K and that the other player doesn't hit a set/straight/flush. |
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#18
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I agree with you on this point.
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#19
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Joe Navy,
Drawing hands are not typically defined as those hands that need to pair up. Draws are usually to straights/flushes so hands like A3s or 76 are drawing hands. Drawing hands are typically played when you can get in the pot relatively cheap with multiple way action. AK is NOT a drawing hand. AK is a hand you raise and can continue to play aggressive post flop. Even with an all under flop, you can maintain aggression and be comfortable you have overs. Certainly AK can rarely improve to a flush or straight, but you are not typically playing AK in hopes of hitting a draw. |
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#20
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Perhaps I should have said. Why gamble so much with a hand that MUST improve. Before anyone gives me the argument "Play it agressively and take down the pot" Ok....in a $5 SnG....there are bound to be garbage player who play garbage hands....we all know it. |
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#21
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It's not for everyone, but it works for me. |
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#22
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#25
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If it's a top heavy prize pool like first gets an entry to something I'd call, otherwise I'd fold it. The AK gets a lot of value from it's fold equity, while the guy might be pushing something like AQ or AJ giving you the best hand I'd often expect it to be something like a small pocket pair. Just not really worth the gamble this early I think.
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#26
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This early in a tourney, and at this level, ppl are playing blind poker or atleast that one player was, what were the blinds 10/20, that one player risking all his chips to win so little, with AK, you really can't fold there because I mean yes it's not the best of hands, but your beating his hands I agree with Vanquish 's "Insta Call" theory and Second that motion
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#27
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With no info of the oppo I think I can fold this one.
It's only 1st level of the tourney, and my AKoff is a coinflip against every pair (47% me, vs 52% oppo) I don't want to risk the tourney in this situation, it's only the beginning and I have all the time to play better situations. |
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#28
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If you enter a SnG or an MTT, best result obviously is to win it. Then of course it is to cash. After that, best result is to go out in round 1. I wouldn't advocate playing like a lunatic, but you'll probably be putting your MTT / SNG on the line with a lot worse than AK at some stage an hour down the line, so why so scared now? Easy call for me, especially if someone has taken a bit of a hit and is looking to bounce back - win and you're positioned to make a run at the win, lose and you're probably heading for an early exit, but there's always another SnG coming along in a minute. I wonder how many of the "folders" have won an MTT or a Multi table SnG, and if so how did they do it? |
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#31
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If you want to get deep into this tournament you have to gamble in this situation. |
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#32
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Well lets not make generalisations here ![]() This is one single hand I chose to fold in one particular situation. If your assumptions about my play was as clear cut as you suggest then why would I bother posting this question? I felt I should call here but in that instance I folded. I thought I'd ask for views on the hand. As for your observations on opponent having AA/KK, I don't follow your reasoning. I've been following the thread and thanks to all those who posted here. |
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#33
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#34
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why are you drawing your line at preflop? what about an all-in on the flop? you can still be outdrawn. in fact you'll often be a lesser % to win after the flop than you will preflop. i mean, if you're going to wait until you have the un-outdrawable nuts to get all-in, you're missing out on tons and tons of equity and you will absolutely never be a good player and don't say you're of the sammy farha thinking, because if he saw what you were saying he'd be like "R U SERIOUS?" don't mean to be harsh, this is just one of the most egregious things i've seen written around here in a while, especially in regard to tournaments. it's unfathomable and it's really in your best interest to either see the light and change this way of thinking or quit poker |