Un-Tilt Me

#1 10th May 2010, 2:25 AM

Ok, so there's a reason I lurk here a lot. I tilt when I play online. Tilt has almost no effect on theory, so I can still pick the best play, I just can't do it five times in a minute with MY bb's on the line.

So anyway, here's what's going on, it's been like this since I started playing online, tell me what you'd do.

Tilt:
I put too many chips in. I justify this thin value bet against the tiniest of ranges, I justify a call with the thinest of odds.
I think people are adjusting to me and floating a lot, or 3betting me a lot, or playing back against my (very loose) 3bets, I basically think they're on a higher level of thought than they are. I know I'll rarely come across strong players so everyone turns into one of them in my mind.
I get up by a couple of buy ins and I go on "positive tilt", I start thinking about the bb's and have to leave the table, I check how many hands and... yep, there's another session limitted to like 150 hands. Great.
Losing doesn't actually tilt me, although I may make slightly loose plays (Prospect theory. After losses, more losses don't register as much and getting back what was lost gains more value. This certainly applies to my state of mind).
I've tried putting my ranges on paper so I can't stuff them up as much, but the problem is in adjusting them, they constantly have to be adjusted and that's where I screw up when I'm tilting.
I have to play fewer tables because my winrate drops, fewer tables means fewer hands.
The main situations where my tilt gets obvious: blind defence (too many 3bets), CO (playing too wide), anything post-flop when I think people are playing back at me (I don't fold, my logic seems sound until I look at it later...).

Online/Live:
I have no tilt problems live, I can play 48 hours (or more) live without tilting. Granted there's an hour or two around the 24 hour mark where I'm a zombie, but I just fold a lot and play my cards so it's minimal, but I don't tilt. I mean, sure one session in 10 I'll get out of line, but the effect on my winrate is minimal.
I'd been playing live for a while, making enough $$$ to get by off of that (student, it's this is or flipping burgers, which is why the few dollars I make is a living). I planned to knock out 20k hands per week when shifting to online, have the time to do it. I did 20k first week just fine, after that started not being able to knock out even 1k hands per day without tilt issues.
It's kind of weird actually, I can have 2x my entire online BR in the middle of the table when I'm playing live and am just fine, but it's the bb's that kill me.

Goals:
Basically for me to play online seriously, I need to get to stakes where I can withdraw a few hundred per week, my honest assessment of my skill level is that I'm better than most regs up to $50nl but may have issues with the rake but I'm in striking distance of profitable at $50nl (an no, I've never played it, but I've seen it and know people who play it and have been around poker for quite a while). My problem? I'm not rolled for it because I can't/won't put in the hands without tilting, I could just deposit it but if I can't win my way to those stakes I probably shouldn't be playing them.
Currently sitting at $25nl and when I'm not on my game (at least half of the time) $10nl.

I know the obvious sollution to all of this is to just play live but there are serious advantages to playing online. Besides, so far I've been unable to satisfactorily beat online poker, I don't like not being able to do stuff, there's pride involved.

All of the online play is 6max, live is FR but kinda plays like 6max a lot of the time and I go between TAG and LAG, spend more time LAG though (which I think I do reasonably well to be honest).

BRM is already at a nitty 30BI minimum to play a certain stake 100BI maximum after which I'll no longer allow myself to play it.

So anyway, what are the sollutions?
Play tighter?
Play more mechanically (write up ranges that I have to follow)?
Learn to play poker?
Any other ideas?

#2 10th May 2010, 4:29 PM

what level are you playing on? What are your hours like? Do you play daily? I am looking to start a new strategy/support group via skype and looking for any and all players with good poker theory knowledhe preferablly at the cusp of becoming profitable. only request id make is that people who are interested prove at least a 100k hand history

#3 11th May 2010, 1:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepokerkid123

...snip...

You sound a lot like me, minus the live poker being tilt free. Jesus, I hate live poker so much....

But anyways, stop playing so laggy, and that will fix a lot of those "oh crap, I'm in a marginal spot so I've gotta think 8 levels deep and I mis-read my opponent" stuff. I tried that, and while yeah, if you hand read well and play deep stacked, it can be very profitable, but it can lead to some serious tilt and mistakes as well.

Also, regarding 3-bets, just give up! When they 3-bet you, you can fold 66% of the time and not be exploitable, so take advantage of this and start folding. Yeah, it sucks to keep giving the guy 3 big blinds at a shot, but if he's really 3-betting you that often, you need to adjust (leave tables, stop stealing so widely and let him 3-bet into your really big hand, 4-bet bluff more). And I put 4-bet bluffing last, because that's probably the last option you need to exercise when facing a laggy 3-bettor. People who 3-bet crazy wide also usually stack crazy wide (I know, I'm that asshole who 3-bets 16%+).

As far as controlling your tilt, I've tried just about everything and so far, I only have 4 things that seem to work:

1) Put in shorter sessions - the longer you play, the worse you play. And generally you play longer when you're tilted. Pretty bad combination.

2) Learn when to quit - this is pretty much the same as #1, but as soon as you do something tilty, you need to recognize it and stop. No, you can't beat the game even when you're tilted.

3) Warm up - start getting in the right mental state before you play. Post on forums, review a few hands, pick a few things to focus on. When you start off cold, you play bad, which just ruins the whole session.

4) Get used to it - players are going to do shit that triggers your tilt, and its just a fact of life. Poker is a long run game, just get used to seeing that ludicrous crap and move on. A lot of tilt stems from the desire to win *now* and poker just doesn't work that way.

#4 11th May 2010, 2:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepokerkid123

Ok, so there's a reason I lurk here a lot. I tilt when I play online. Tilt has almost no effect on theory, so I can still pick the best play, I just can't do it five times in a minute with MY bb's on the line.

So anyway, here's what's going on, it's been like this since I started playing online, tell me what you'd do.

Tilt:
I put too many chips in. I justify this thin value bet against the tiniest of ranges, I justify a call with the thinest of odds.
I think people are adjusting to me and floating a lot, or 3betting me a lot, or playing back against my (very loose) 3bets, I basically think they're on a higher level of thought than they are. I know I'll rarely come across strong players so everyone turns into one of them in my mind.
I get up by a couple of buy ins and I go on "positive tilt", I start thinking about the bb's and have to leave the table, I check how many hands and... yep, there's another session limitted to like 150 hands. Great.
Losing doesn't actually tilt me, although I may make slightly loose plays (Prospect theory. After losses, more losses don't register as much and getting back what was lost gains more value. This certainly applies to my state of mind).
I've tried putting my ranges on paper so I can't stuff them up as much, but the problem is in adjusting them, they constantly have to be adjusted and that's where I screw up when I'm tilting.
I have to play fewer tables because my winrate drops, fewer tables means fewer hands.
The main situations where my tilt gets obvious: blind defence (too many 3bets), CO (playing too wide), anything post-flop when I think people are playing back at me (I don't fold, my logic seems sound until I look at it later...).

Online/Live:
I have no tilt problems live, I can play 48 hours (or more) live without tilting. Granted there's an hour or two around the 24 hour mark where I'm a zombie, but I just fold a lot and play my cards so it's minimal, but I don't tilt. I mean, sure one session in 10 I'll get out of line, but the effect on my winrate is minimal.
I'd been playing live for a while, making enough $$$ to get by off of that (student, it's this is or flipping burgers, which is why the few dollars I make is a living). I planned to knock out 20k hands per week when shifting to online, have the time to do it. I did 20k first week just fine, after that started not being able to knock out even 1k hands per day without tilt issues.
It's kind of weird actually, I can have 2x my entire online BR in the middle of the table when I'm playing live and am just fine, but it's the bb's that kill me.

Goals:
Basically for me to play online seriously, I need to get to stakes where I can withdraw a few hundred per week, my honest assessment of my skill level is that I'm better than most regs up to $50nl but may have issues with the rake but I'm in striking distance of profitable at $50nl (an no, I've never played it, but I've seen it and know people who play it and have been around poker for quite a while). My problem? I'm not rolled for it because I can't/won't put in the hands without tilting, I could just deposit it but if I can't win my way to those stakes I probably shouldn't be playing them.
Currently sitting at $25nl and when I'm not on my game (at least half of the time) $10nl.

I know the obvious sollution to all of this is to just play live but there are serious advantages to playing online. Besides, so far I've been unable to satisfactorily beat online poker, I don't like not being able to do stuff, there's pride involved.

All of the online play is 6max, live is FR but kinda plays like 6max a lot of the time and I go between TAG and LAG, spend more time LAG though (which I think I do reasonably well to be honest).

BRM is already at a nitty 30BI minimum to play a certain stake 100BI maximum after which I'll no longer allow myself to play it.

So anyway, what are the sollutions?
Play tighter?
Play more mechanically (write up ranges that I have to follow)?
Learn to play poker?
Any other ideas?

Very nice kid! Thanks for spelling out some of my own tilt problems (online only). For me this is especially true when you say "I basically think they're on a higher level of thought than they are" Give too much credit sometimes. This is worthy of TOTM imo. Btw how much does boredom figure into your tilt equation? If you have'nt seen a decent hand in awhile, how many orbits will you wait before you abandon a table or start loosening up?

#5 11th May 2010, 4:17 AM

c9, thanks, that helped a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawgBones

Btw how much does boredom figure into your tilt equation? If you have'nt seen a decent hand in awhile, how many orbits will you wait before you abandon a table or start loosening up?

Boredom does factor in, it shouldn't, but it does. Sitting on my hands when there's a situation I could possibly exploit (even if I probably shouldn't try) is not a strong point.
If I go a full orbit without playing a hand something weird is going on. If you're regularly folding for a couple of orbits in a row, my guess is that you're too tight from the BTN and CO.

#6 11th May 2010, 5:57 AM

Sophisticated plays don't work against unsophisticated players. Sounds like you need to dumb your game down a little. Wait till you get to 50nl or 100nl to make some of the more sophisticated plays. Just my opinion.

#7 11th May 2010, 6:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepokerkid123

c9, thanks, that helped a lot.

Boredom does factor in, it shouldn't, but it does. Sitting on my hands when there's a situation I could possibly exploit (even if I probably shouldn't try) is not a strong point.
If I go a full orbit without playing a hand something weird is going on. If you're regularly folding for a couple of orbits in a row, my guess is that you're too tight from the BTN and CO.

Care to expand on this? Still playing micros so it's a little difficult to even think about calling/raising with ATo in the CO with a raise behind. Know this is difficult to answer without any table knowledge, but any info is appreciated

#8 11th May 2010, 8:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawgBones

Care to expand on this? Still playing micros so it's a little difficult to even think about calling/raising with ATo in the CO with a raise behind. Know this is difficult to answer without any table knowledge, but any info is appreciated

ATo is usually a clear fold when facing a raise, and an easy raise if it's folded to you.

Not really sure how to explain what I think good ranges should be from the CO because it's really dependent on how tight the BTN is playing, but as a rough guidline I open raise about 27% of hands with a fairly tight player on my left, in 6max. My range FR isn't much different when it's folded to me.

And for the BTN, I made my views clear on open raising ranges in the May Cash Game Thread recently, as did a few other people (short answer: very, very loose).

Ranges are hard to put on paper for when it's raised before you though because apart from depending on the type of player who raised and what position they're in, there are stack sizes, raise sizes, how likely BTN or blinds are to call or 3bet, how fishy opponents are (how much value you can get post-flop if you just call).

Similar Threads for: Un-Tilt Me > Texas Hold'em Poker
Thread	Replies	Last Post	Forum	Thread Starter
Breaking News: Full Tilt Poker Goes Green! Not nearly as exciting as you hope.	44	23rd April 2012 10:54 PM	General Poker	kidkvno1
Dealing with Tilt - A Different View	2	7th March 2012 3:29 AM	General Poker	CuttleFish
Full Tilt Poker Makes Its Case For Why It Has Been Unable To Pay Its Players (FORBES)	15	1st September 2011 9:29 AM	Poker Rooms	coolnout
Full Tilt Rush Week 20-26 June	13	15th June 2011 10:33 PM	Poker Rooms	Aldito
Full Tilt Holiday Store Giveaway	14	21st December 2010 3:49 AM	Poker Rooms	coolnout

Play Texas Hold'em Online Poker \| Un-Tilt Me
BetOnline Poker is a top online poker site accepting all US players with an INSTANT cash bonus of up to $900 FREE. It also has a casino and sports betting available.	PokerStars is one of the best sites to play online poker. Using PokerStars marketing code CCHAT you get a $600 bonus. Note: No US Players Accepted.