This thread is for the sole purpose of getting better and really trying to elevate my game. A lot of people are taking the time off rite now and I feel that now is the time to really get better as a poker player. I know that there is a micro study group but lets face it...it's dead.

Anybody can post in here revolving study material or watever

The way I'll be doing it is reviewing certain topics from sources I have and if it's ok with the mods I'll gladly post the links. I'll summarize and give certain examples of my own just to make sure that I grasp the concept and if not hopefully some of u guys point it out nicely . Other people can use this as well so this is not just for me. Just a thread to help me get better and remember what I study

Yeh the study group is more than dead, sounds like a good idea you have here. Would be more than happy to follow this thread good luck! Maybe you should make a video sometime also, seems a few of us have/are going too, and is a good way to get feedback from multiple people.

Ya prolly making a vid tmro but Im hoping my camtusio free 30 day hasn't expired

Mentality

-how bad do u really want it? always have to improve game by working hard because there are tons of multitabling robots out there improving when ur not
-never think a play is just good enough for that stake
-people always bitch about getting suked out when %85 fav but dont let that person be u
-who cares if AA lost to 44 pre 234959449 times
-results dont matter

Image

-SSNL a bunch of weak tight players just waiting to be afraid of u
-install fear by playing solidly positionally aware poker
-once people start to play back at u or see u go to showdown with weak holdings tighten up a bit
-react to table dynamics and how people are observing u

Originally Posted by Tyler69

This thread is for the sole purpose of getting better and really trying to elevate my game. A lot of people are taking the time off rite now and I feel that now is the time to really get better as a poker player. I know that there is a micro study group but lets face it...it's dead.

Anybody can post in here revolving study material or watever

The way I'll be doing it is reviewing certain topics from sources I have and if it's ok with the mods I'll gladly post the links. I'll summarize and give certain examples of my own just to make sure that I grasp the concept and if not hopefully some of u guys point it out nicely . Other people can use this as well so this is not just for me. Just a thread to help me get better and remember what I study

Thanks so much for this thread. I am thinking on the same track. I made a post over at 2+2 in the goals section. Maybe I will post over here as well. This was a part of my post:

"So, now that I can't play the game is this a sign to walk away from poker? Or, should I use this time away from the tables to study the game and get better? I feel I need to purge myself of all the skype poker talk, micro coaching sessions, study groups and just spend time working on my game. I want to use this time wisely so if/when online poker is available to us in the U.S. I won't fall into my same terrible habits."


These are my current study tools:
Cardrunners
Cardrunners EV
Holdem Manager
Leak Buster

The guys over there suggested I run HEM and LB to gather some leaks. These were some of the glaring leaks thus far:



I have just purchased Owen Gaines - Poker Math That Matters. ( math is not my strong suite) Looking forward to strengthening my weaknesses. Hope this thread gets going!

@wordtothewise- ya u def need to cbet more. my cbet% is 78 which isnt bad at all imo but am working on selecting better boards and more likely villains that fold more often

wat stakes are u currently at?

Value out of strong hands

-more likely to go pot-pot on scary boards because we dont want villain drawing
-full stacks and want to get it in 3/4, 2/3, 1/2 isnt good enough
-try to get most money in before river to squeeze money out of draws and force villains to make a crying call
-be careful doing vs regs from switching from 2/3 cbet size to pot size

c/r vs b/3b

-use stacksizes to help determine the amount of FE we have with draws
-obv short stacks=less FE
-take line that traps the most dead money in the pot
-u flop an OESFD. If u lead out and the PFR raises, then the 3 callers in between will all fold. If u check, the PFR bets, then hopefully a few of the players in between will call with a draw/weak TP or whatever, and when u then C/R, u trap all of their money in the pot
-LAG who cbets alot then gives up on turn UI then c/r is better because missing out on cbet
-if PFR can raise semi-weak hands when lead into then b/3b is better
-only c/r when u have a great reason in doing so

Reverse implied odds

-winning the minimum and losing the maximum
-u arent sure where u exist in the hand, little chance of improvment, a call may commit u to the hand and ur opponent controls the flow of the hand
-seeing that your going to be normally calling than betting

Hero has JJ

Hero raises to 3 Sb calls

Flop: 678 Sb bets 4 Hero..?

A couple of things:
good luck on the thread
you will enjoy PMTM, it's a very good book.
you don't mention stakes and format you're playing.

Owen gaines second book, hole card confessions is very good imo, i havent read PMTM but his second book made me think about the game in so many new ways, im gonna continually reread parts of it until i have it all imprinted in my brain.

If you're gonna study hand reading Tyler, then thats a great way to start

I think this is an awesome idea, and gl.
I mostly lurk in the cash game threads but do read most of them. There is not much going on as was said, the study group thread is kinda dead, and the cash game thread.....it is great when a poker discussion breaks out, but those seem few and far between and it is more like flipping through pages of a misc. topic chat thread, lol

Originally Posted by fx20736

A couple of things:
good luck on the thread
you will enjoy PMTM, it's a very good book.
you don't mention stakes and format you're playing.

my stakes dont really matter because this thread is just for concepts and game theory things. Rite now im just finishing up covering the fundamentals of things and will move on to more difficult concepts. also the people that are going to be posting in here likely already know the stakes each individual is and this isnt a cash game thread for me

but.......i am playing 4nl 6max on Carbon Poker. recently switched to 6max about 2-3 months ago and loveeee itttttt. fx i really advise giving it just another little shot and see if u still hate it. i ran 12/10 at FR and since going to 6max im running 21/19 and it really allows me to work on my post flop play

Originally Posted by acky100

Owen gaines second book, hole card confessions is very good imo, i havent read PMTM but his second book made me think about the game in so many new ways, im gonna continually reread parts of it until i have it all imprinted in my brain.

If you're gonna study hand reading Tyler, then thats a great way to start

ya im def gunna look into buying it like fx said in the previous post as ive heard nothing but good things

video making time so wish me luck

Originally Posted by PooffyFooffy

I think this is an awesome idea, and gl.
I mostly lurk in the cash game threads but do read most of them. There is not much going on as was said, the study group thread is kinda dead, and the cash game thread.....it is great when a poker discussion breaks out, but those seem few and far between and it is more like flipping through pages of a misc. topic chat thread, lol

rite, the other thread was completely dead

ive just been studying alot lately and felt that after a week or so i would forgot some of the main points i learned so i figured it would help to write them down as i read them and allow other people to put there own input on that topic. also allows other beginners or people looking to improve to read alot of this stuff and improve

Good luck with the video, ill be making mine tonight too

only read one little thing tonight so not much to put. basically covering level one thinking and how people assess their own hand when not worrying about opponents range. somewat obv but always nice to brush up on things. also i made a vid so if u read in here be sure to check it out!!!! CC is currently in a recession so i feel like im talking to myself the past 4 days

Level One Thinking

-opponent is only worrying about how strong his own hand is
-figure out what opponent thinks of as a "good hand" and bet/raise call accordingly
-Does he THINK u will play AA that way
-want range to be considered as wide when value betting and narrow when bluffing

Originally Posted by Tyler69

-Does he THINK u will play AA that way

I think even this is beyond level one thinking.

This article on level's is a good reference point for discussion.

At 5NL i'd say a lot of the regs actually level two. Trying to put people on hand ranges etc. If we can play level three we should easly smash them.

Originally Posted by jbbb

I think even this is beyond level one thinking.

This article on level's is a good reference point for discussion.

At 5NL i'd say a lot of the regs actually level two. Trying to put people on hand ranges etc. If we can play level three we should easly smash them.

agreed. will read the article later on today thanks

Level One Thinking (cont)

ex:

we hold KK raise to 3 and get one caller in the SB

Flop: 46T

sb checks we bet 6 and sb calls

Turn: 2

sb checks we bet 19 and get c/r by sb and we insta put our stack in


i think this is a good example of level one thinking because wat type of hands could the sb be c/c c/r us with? apart from being baluga, the only hands really doing this are sets with the exeption of a donk overvalueing TP hands which even that could be a push

Id have to disagree with the statement that "a lot of the regs are actually level 2"

At 5nl If you start even thinking about level 3 i can guarantee you will out level yourself, you're only gonna have to start using level 3 when you are at like 200nl and even then a lot of the time i bet level 2 is right for a lot of villains.

I think we should assume that until we have a good reason to think otherwise EVERYONE is thinking on level one!

Im not being a dick or anything jbbb, just dont try any get fancy at the micros, most of the money i lose is by being too fancy.

Say you raise from button or lp, with a pocket pair, get one caller and you are ip on them flop comes all high cards like AKQ AK10 etc is this a standard c-bet vs unknown solid? hb vs someone like 50/10, I have been mixing this up alot but really unsure whether it is worth the c-bet or not.

So my day off from CC was fun. Thought it would last longer but other threads *cough* 2p2 *cough* for the micros are no good for me. A bunch of little kids in there with their panties too tight. Decided that since it’s a happening thing right now to turn my study thread into full borne cash AND study thread. So same thing with the study applies here but I also get to talk about my PP’s losing over a small sample . Really hope to post some marginal spots in here and videos when I get a chance to get help from the veterans of CC and really elevate my game. I feel like I have improved an insane amount from the help of this forum so thanks to everybody. Ill post some stats later on tonight so people get a feel of what I’m playing at.

Currently playing 4nl on Carbon and finding it super soft and weak and my br is currently at $170 from depositing $100. Moving up 25bi's or less. Haven't gave it much thought quite yet.

Keep it real brothas

Stats over 5k hands so not a big sample at all but gives a general idea



And then the graph...no i wont display AIEV

played for an hour on 4 tables amount won of $1.02 over 285 hands. hooray

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $4.48
BTN: $2.06
SB: $4.18
Hero (BB): $5.61
UTG: $4.19
MP: $5.65

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has Q♦ Q♣

fold, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.04, SB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.20, BTN calls $0.16, SB calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.60, 3 players) A♥ 8♦ 7♣
SB checks, Hero bets $0.40, BTN calls $0.40, fold

Turn: ($1.40, 2 players) 5♠
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($1.40, 2 players) 9♦
Hero checks, BTN checks

Hero shows Q♦ Q♣ (One Pair, Queens) (PreFlop 81%, Flop 88%, Turn 95%)
BTN shows T♠ T♦ (One Pair, Tens) (PreFlop 19%, Flop 12%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins $1.33


b/f turn and get value from other PP's?


Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $4.23
Hero (SB): $6.20
BB: $2.74
UTG: $4.00
CO: $3.16

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has K♦ Q♥

fold, CO calls $0.04, fold, Hero raises to $0.16, fold, CO calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.36, 2 players) 9♦ 7♥ Q♠
Hero bets $0.27, CO calls $0.27

Turn: ($0.90, 2 players) T♦
Hero bets $0.60, CO calls $0.60

River: ($2.10, 2 players) 7♠
Hero bets $5.17 and is all-in, CO calls $2.13 and is all-in

Hero shows K♦ Q♥ (Two Pair, Queens and Sevens) (PreFlop 65%, Flop 91%, Turn 89%)
CO shows 3♥ T♥ (Two Pair, Tens and Sevens) (PreFlop 35%, Flop 9%, Turn 11%)
Hero wins $0.00
Hero wins $6.05

non believers i tell u

anyways session is over so its study time after a quick bite to eat and tv watching

Originally Posted by Tyler69

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $4.48
BTN: $2.06
SB: $4.18
Hero (BB): $5.61
UTG: $4.19
MP: $5.65

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has Q♦ Q♣

fold, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.04, SB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.20, BTN calls $0.16, SB calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.60, 3 players) A♥ 8♦ 7♣
SB checks, Hero bets $0.40, BTN calls $0.40, fold

Turn: ($1.40, 2 players) 5♠
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($1.40, 2 players) 9♦
Hero checks, BTN checks

Hero shows Q♦ Q♣ (One Pair, Queens) (PreFlop 81%, Flop 88%, Turn 95%)
BTN shows T♠ T♦ (One Pair, Tens) (PreFlop 19%, Flop 12%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins $1.33


b/f turn and get value from other PP's?

It's perfectly fine to check it here, IMO. It's WA/WB, so you're rarely getting him to commit more bets with a lesser hand than yours.

Originally Posted by acky100

Id have to disagree with the statement that "a lot of the regs are actually level 2"

At 5nl If you start even thinking about level 3 i can guarantee you will out level yourself, you're only gonna have to start using level 3 when you are at like 200nl and even then a lot of the time i bet level 2 is right for a lot of villains.

I think we should assume that until we have a good reason to think otherwise EVERYONE is thinking on level one!

Im not being a dick or anything jbbb, just dont try any get fancy at the micros, most of the money i lose is by being too fancy.

It's not about being a dick, its just a discussion
But I have to disagree, putting people on a range is pretty basic stuff. Anyone who plays 5NL seriously (as in studies poker) will know how to put people on ranges through their stats and line taken in a particular hand. Whether they're accurate at hand reading is another matter though.

Yep what dogmeat said, check and let him bluff sometimes. Same as the QQ hand in the video i commented on.

Originally Posted by Tyler69

Moving up 25bi's or less. Haven't gave it much thought quite yet.

you one of them BR nits?

Originally Posted by acky100

Id have to disagree with the statement that "a lot of the regs are actually level 2"

At 5nl If you start even thinking about level 3 i can guarantee you will out level yourself, you're only gonna have to start using level 3 when you are at like 200nl and even then a lot of the time i bet level 2 is right for a lot of villains.

in my experience, level 2 is good enough most of the time, but one can definitely start doing level 3 stuff against the right opponents at least from 25nl, and most certainly against a lot of the people at 50nl. you still have to have some experience with them, but it can (and should) be done. waiting till 200nl is definitely overkill.

Originally Posted by benevg

you one of them BR nits?

lol no never have moved up before so still don't know wat amount of bi's fits me

ok so QQ hand we c/c flop. how often are we calling double barrels? surely PP's are likely giving up OTT and checking back so is it a c/f situation? and if it goes ch/ch OTT should we be value betting river?

<3

Will read this later tomorrow, good thread.

no grinding updates. last 3 days school/work/friday night have kept me from playing but look to get in a session tmrow

did finish a huge archive of reading that was linked to me and now plan and reading another archive of awesomeness starting maybe rite now. but im tired so we will see

just played a session of about 300 hands so now have only 5.5k hands on Carbon 4nl. pretty boring session somewhat and not a ton of spots but there is a few


Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $4.00
SB: $4.00
BB: $3.91
UTG: $10.35

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has J♥ K♣

UTG calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.16, fold, fold, UTG calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.38, 2 players) J♠ 5♠ A♣
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.25, UTG calls $0.25

Turn: ($0.88, 2 players) 4♦
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.58, UTG calls $0.58

River: ($2.04, 2 players) 3♦
UTG checks, Hero checks

villain is 56/11. figured betting flop and turn to get value from Jx and draws and then check river cause i dont see much continuing with. thoughts?


Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BB): $4.00
UTG: $4.00
MP: $4.00
CO: $3.85
BTN: $4.50
SB: $6.75

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has A♣ T♣

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.16, SB calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.32, 2 players) A♥ 8♣ 4♠
SB checks, Hero bets $0.21, SB calls $0.21

Turn: ($0.74, 2 players) Q♠
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.74, 2 players) T♥
SB bets $0.37, Hero raises to $1.14, SB raises to $6.38 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.49 and is all-in

honestly dont know wat was going on here

bet turn obv and this hand is much easier. as played fold to river 3bet

Edit: why when i put "AP" it turns into Absolute Poker?

Maybe I'll make it back to just study thread cuz I got more responses then

Originally Posted by Tyler69

just played a session of about 300 hands so now have only 5.5k hands on Carbon 4nl. pretty boring session somewhat and not a ton of spots but there is a few


Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $4.00
SB: $4.00
BB: $3.91
UTG: $10.35

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has J♥ K♣

UTG calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.16, fold, fold, UTG calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.38, 2 players) J♠ 5♠ A♣
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.25, UTG calls $0.25

Turn: ($0.88, 2 players) 4♦
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.58, UTG calls $0.58

River: ($2.04, 2 players) 3♦
UTG checks, Hero checks

villain is 56/11. figured betting flop and turn to get value from Jx and draws and then check river cause i dont see much continuing with. thoughts?


Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BB): $4.00
UTG: $4.00
MP: $4.00
CO: $3.85
BTN: $4.50
SB: $6.75

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has A♣ T♣

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.16, SB calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.32, 2 players) A♥ 8♣ 4♠
SB checks, Hero bets $0.21, SB calls $0.21

Turn: ($0.74, 2 players) Q♠
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.74, 2 players) T♥
SB bets $0.37, Hero raises to $1.14, SB raises to $6.38 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.49 and is all-in

honestly dont know wat was going on here

bet turn obv and this hand is much easier. as played fold to river 3bet

Edit: why when i put "Absolute Poker" it turns into Absolute Poker?

First hand I would have played the same. Second, I would have bet the turn (as you said it makes it easier) Im not sure what the right play on the river here is. What are villains stats?

Same villain if I remember correctly. If not I no it was a fish. Normally donks aren't 3bet shoving rivers with air but because we have 2 pair I'm not quite sure about calling the shove

Originally Posted by Tyler69

Same villain if I remember correctly. If not I no it was a fish. Normally donks aren't 3bet shoving rivers with air but because we have 2 pair I'm not quite sure about calling the shove

I agree, its a tough fold as you have 2 pair, but against passisve donks it is probably a correct fold as we will go to showdown against hands which beat us most of the time here. Unless we have a read that villain will stack off light post-flop. Tbh in game i would probs make a crying call cos i suck

Originally Posted by seanDCFC

I agree, its a tough fold as you have 2 pair, but against passisve donks it is probably a correct fold as we will go to showdown against hands which beat us most of the time here. Unless we have a read that villain will stack off light post-flop. Tbh in game i would probs make a crying call cos i suck

Ya I tanked for a lil but do feel that it's a fold cuz like u said I think were beat way too often when he shoves.

For the first hand its pretty standard, second hand I think if its the 56/10 guy then you definately want to fire twice, but vs a solid or even average reg checking behind is a good play as well. The river depends solely on reads, if you think he can do that with 2p then call, if its only sets or straights then you have to fold.. Generally I think calling is okay

Originally Posted by imwatcher

For the first hand its pretty standard, second hand I think if its the 56/10 guy then you definately want to fire twice, but vs a solid or even average reg checking behind is a good play as well. The river depends solely on reads, if you think he can do that with 2p then call, if its only sets or straights then you have to fold.. Generally I think calling is okay

If its vs solid player than likely checking back turn for pot contol so ya agreed

Anybody that wants to try to become a good player post in here plz. This is a family thread. U can post hands in here as well if u have a difficult spot and if idk then I'm sure some of the cool regs that are grinding micros on this forum will help ex: dogmeat, deuces, acky, cafeman, sean, imwatcher, luckychippy and so on