Trying to Build my Bankroll.

So i started to play live games at my local casino. They have 3/6, 4/8/ 10/20, 15/30, and once a week 20/40. These are all limit games too. Across they street there is another casion that has poker that does have 2-5 spread limit. Im not really a NL player. Just mainly a cash limit player. So im trying my luck at building my bankroll. So i went and started playing 3/6 and my luck was good the first day and cashed up $180. Went the next day played 4/8 and won $240. Couple days later went up wiht my buddy and played 4/8 limit and won $375. Than 3 days ago my friend and i went up again and i cashed out up $160. So right there i have won come up profit about $955. But today went and play some 3/6 and jumped to 4/8 as my luck was no good. Took only $300 and lost it all. I left the casino angry and wanting to rebuy some more and try my luck again. But i held myself from doing it and went home to think about what to do next time. So now my bankroll profit bankrol is at $655 and i also have my original bankroll i had brought to the casino thats day which was $300. So total i have again now is $955. What limit should i play at? I like 3/6 but there is alot of action at a 4/8 tables. I just am curious i know this is mainly online talk but i hope me talking about live games is cool. I also do think about playing in the 10/20 games but i get nervous b/c i have playes those limits and know what can happen on a bad run. I know this was a long and boring story but this is just my second post im a NEWCOMER!! But i can alreayd tell im going to like it here.

The conventional wisdom is that you should have 500 big bets to play limit, and 5,000 big bets to play no limit. For a 3/6 limit table you'd need a bankroll of $3,000 to make sure you don't get cleaned out. For a 3/6 no limit table you'd need a bankroll of $30,000.

Poker involves something called "variance," which basically means how much your bankroll goes up and down over time. Winning $375 at 4/8 limit in one session is typical, as is losing $300 at another session is also typical. That's why you need such a large bankroll--you can go as long as two months without losing a single hand but also without winning a single hand.

The worst thing that can happen to a player when he first starts poker is to go on a winning streak right away. It can be a trigger for addiction.

I would advise you to pick the lowest limits you can find and keep adding new cash to your bankroll whenever you can until it's big enough. And if you ever run out of cash don't get discouraged, but also don't sell the car or mortgage the house to get more.

buttgirl

$1/$2

Or take a super degen shot at 10/20.

Thanks for all input guys. The thing is we dont' have 1/2 limit. Lowest limit is 3/6. But i feel like im a pretty good player with a $955 bankroll playing 3/6 is good? Or you think i should wait until i get a bigger bankroll to start playing. Just remember i only started out with $300 but built it to $955. I may just start playing 3/6 my main problem is knowing when to get up and leave when im up, and also when to leave when i down. I just can't control my losses. The $300 i lost the other day i could have lost more, but only brought $300 with me. I feel like i wanna go back up again and play that same day, but thats one part of my game i been controlling is my tilt. Before even at losing $300 i would keep playing more and more to chase my losses. After learning that it doesn't work like that, helped improve my game, but every once in awhile ill go back to taht mentality. Its just so frustrating at times. But gotta learn to leave your emotions behind you. Any more advcie would be greatly appreciated.

You can play 3/6 with that bankroll, you can play any limit, but the point of it is that limit hold'em is huge variance. You can do everything right and still have a losing session. The point of the 20 buy in rule for NLHE or 300BB rule in limit is just to try to manage that variance and let it run its course with out decimating your whole bankroll. Just know that it's entirely possible that you could do everything right and still go broke at the bankroll that you're at, but if you just have the mentality that "I'm just going to have fun, and if I win that's great but if I lose it's not that bad" go for it.

Q: How to build your bankroll ?
A: Play a game which you can easily beat

Q: Which game is easier 3/6 or 4/8 ?
A: Probably 3/6 because it's the lowest stake at your casino and all newcomers and fish will be there

If I were you I'd play 3/6 until I build at least $8K and skip 4/8 to go directly to the higher 10/20. The game 4/8 will be probably harder than 3/6 and the stakes are not that higher to give you much more profit. You'll probably make more at the lower 3/6 playing with the worse players.

you would be very surprised lots of bad players at both 3/6 and 4/8. yeah, so i think i will go play 3/6 and try to build my bankroll up to at least 4k. before moving up the ranks to 4/8. Ill keep you guys posted on my success. i only really play 2 to 3 times a week as i work alot! 50 plus hours every week.

I would stick with the lowest stake, have fun with it and not take it too seriously. Everything takes time, so have patience and things will go your way.

Good luck on the felt.

60BI's is 3x excessive imo.

I'm sorry but how many times did you use the phrase: "try my luck" ?

sorry, should i have skill than? I mean poker is honestly alot of luck not much skill really. yeah skills involved, but more than likely unless you get good cards and hit them your lucky, it doesn't take skill to pick up 2 cards and try to make the best hand out of 5 community cards.

I'm afraid this story isn't going to end well. Might I recommend reading Getting Started in Hold Em by Ed Miller. I'm sure others have recommendations as well.

If your only going to be playing your cards and believe its all luck, might I suggest a faster way for you to lose (or grow) your bankroll. Stick it all in one of those video poker machines and go for broke.

Poker is luck for the losing player who hits it big once in a while... It is skill for the winning player who gets unlucky once in a while... don't think for a minute that you can be a winning player by luck, or you will be broke before you know it.

So you're saying, if a buyin is 100 big bets, and you need 20 buyins to play NL, your bankroll should be 2,000 big bets? Just clarifying. What I've heard is that you should have at least 2,500 big bets.

And what about the minimum buyins on most sites? The ones I've seen are around 20 big bets. If you need 20 buyins that means your bankroll would be 400 big bets. That means a 10/20 NL player would need a starting bankroll of $40. Is this realistic or too optimistic?

buttgirl

There's a diffence between big bets and big blinds, if it's bb=big blind, BB=Big bet (which is the same as 2bb's).

A 20BI bankroll is standard for NL, but it's a better guideline for a minimum bankroll. When we say 20 buy ins, or 30 buy ins, we're assuming they're 100bb buy ins as that's standard for almost every long term winning player.

If you buy in short it doesn't decrease your variance, so you still need you 2,000 or 3,000 or whatever bb's.

Is this a level? If you believe this, why are you trying to build a bankroll?

I did the same thing when I was trying to build my roulette banroll! I put all my chips on 17 and 20... you'll never guess what happened. DOUBLE ZERO!

no way this is not a level.. like level 8 at least

I have played plenty of live tourneys, but have never played a live cash game. I have observed some cash games and have noticed that after winning a pot most players tip the dealer. My question is How much should you tip the dealer. Is there a normal or standard % of the pot won that you should tip? I plan on trying a cash game soon and don't want to look like an idiot.

Well when i win depending on how big the pot is. I usually tip 2 bucks. Sometimes 4 or 5 if its a huge pot. But most players only give 1 dollar no matter how much they win.

I thought it had to do with pot size. I also saw where a player was definitely looked down upon for not tipping. Even in a tournament I tip if I am lucky enough to cash. The amount I tip is then depending upon the amount I won. I normally tip about 5% of the amount I cashed for. I always felt this was a fair amount. you agree?

I live in a country where it's illegal for dealers to accept tips (they charge more rake instead), but from what I gather the regular players (well, the winners anyway) actually see over tipping as a sign of a fish.
Rake in any form has a huge effect on your winrate, if no one is raising an eyebrow at people tipping one of the smallest chips, then do that.

i mean i also feel the same way, i mean i feel like even a dollar tip should be necessary when the pot is almost alwayst at least 40 bucks. its cuz of the dealer who dealt the cards you won the pot. so be nice and tip!

facepalm.

I was playing a 3/6 live table one day and won a decent size pot (not big, but not just the blinds either) and just honestly forgot to tip the dealer. He got noticeably pissy in subsequent hands, and then another player at the table won a similar sized pot and flipped him a dollar chip.

He immediately went into the most insincere monologue about "Thank you, sir! Us dealers really do appreciate those tips." and shot me a sidelong glance. I didn't tip that ****er a dime after that.

There's way too much social pressure to tip, IMHO. If the dealer is pleasant, funny, and doesn't deal me a ton of beats, I'll tip freely on almost every pot. But when a jerk like that looks upon it as an entitlement, I feel no remorse whatsoever skipping him... and the thing is, he's still at the same casino, and while he probably doesn't remember me, I certainly remember him.

hello this is my first hello post - I probably will have broken all the forum etiquette rules so sorry in advance but hello anyway and thanks and good wishes to anyone taking the trouble to read this - I really want to have a live chat about bank roll stategy as I am trying to re-adjust my game completely to being bank roll minded.

I will try and be as honest as poker possible. Recently I received a free $100 from a poker site + I added $300 and played mostly on $1/2 tables either one at a time or two a time - my aim is simply to make $200 a session however long it takes. Each day may have more up to three sessions. I have done this over say a couple of weeks 15th may to today 23rd may 8 days - I haven't reloaded yet since the first day and my roll is $3500 approx. I will admit to having to go back to $5/10 twice in that time as a short cut - if I have had a string of stack losses say 4 four in a row. Each stack loss will generally be $200 to $300 as I try not to build too much on a table if other players have built their stacks also. So if I have $450 on a table and another player has $500 I will cash out and go to another table to avoid an expensive all in. I keep my stack on the table at usually between $180 to $200 topping up as necessary.

( sorry - I only play NL THE 6 player tables cash games ) Normally I play $5/10 - $3/6 - $2/4 - $1/2 I do still occassionally succumb to both negative and positive tilt , but I generally keep that under control.

If I hit my $200 I will enter a tourney or something if there is one available.

Now my question is around stop / loss methodology.

Usually I lose say $400 in the first half hour before regaining $600 to $700 which can take 3 or 4 hours or more. At that point if I am ahead I am happy to turn the machinery off. Today I go on and and make $200 on the first hand. I think well thats a relief !! Free time I shut the machinery down and use the spare time to come on here. My question is - If I win say $220 + in the first ten mins or so should I carry on, or stick to the method of stop-loss per session ? I do not operate a loss stop, due to variance, if necessary I will use my whole stack to recover in a session if necessary as long as I am not tilting.

My aim is to achieve 30 X buy in ( 200 x 30 - £6000 ) on $1/2 before moving to $2/4 and $3/6.

I will leave this post here and thank anyone in advance should there be a reply. Plus I know that I have broken my own rules on the two occassions I went to $5/10 but I was trying to be honest in the post.

You break etiquette and then get mad when the dealer, who relies on those tips to maintain his standard of living, gets upset? Sounds like a real jerk thing to do to me.

Welcome.
In all honesty, if you're concerned about winning and losing (i.e. not just playing for fun and don't care about the money) then move down to 5c/10c at the highest. I promise you are outclassed at those tables, so much so that any of the regulars at those tables would really hate for you to be getting this advice. You are outclassed.
Play $1/$2 live and you can expect weak players, play it online and I guarantee you're the fish at the table. I'm not trying to be a be a bastard here, and I'll only say it once so ignore it if you want.

As for bankroll management, never playing in a game with less than 20 maximum buy ins is a basic overall approach that will serve you well. Most long term winning players are considerably deeper than that, even with a high winrate 10 buy in swings are common from variance alone, if you let it tilt you or move up in stakes to cover your losses, you can expect significantly larger swings.

My advice is to either have fun and see how long your lucky streak lasts before you go broke, or buckle down and learn this game. Neither option is right or wrong.


Edit: Just to add an answer to your actual question, stop-loss works for tilt prevention. Because of that it will reduce your swings, however it doesn't effect your results at all if you're not tilting. Think of poker results as coming from one really long session, if you break it up into convenient portions you can win most of your sessions but it wont alter your net result.

Thanks for the reply pokerkidd, your advice including para one is welcomed and wont be ignored. I think the ratio of good players to less good players at different levels varies depending on the online site. The current site I am on, I would def say I am outclassed by many of the players and there is little room for manouevre at 3/6 or 5/10. I agree 1/2 is a tough environment too.
I am acutely aware of the being outclassed issue.

Your comment re variance is helpful, currently on 1/2 that could fluctuate by $2,000 excluding stupidity.

Thanks for the comments in the final paragraph, that has certainly helped clarify my thinking re sessions, tilt and stop loss. I like the way you don't mince your words.

Yes, I tend to get upset when someone in the service industry *expects* a gratuity regardless of the level of service they offer. There's a reason they're called that - otherwise they'd be called "compulsaries".

I am of the opinion that dealers, and everyone else in the service industry, need to realize that their tips will reflect their *service*, not my regard for whether or not they can maintain their standard of living at their chosen vocation. However, in general, I am quite generous with my tips. In this particular instance, however, I found his attitude regarding one honestly forgotten tip poor enough that I couldn't honestly care less about his standards. *shrug*

But hey, you weren't there, so you obviously have a better handle on the situation... flame away.

your side of the story Syl shows the individual was rude to you and should not be tipped His pointed remarks regarding tipping were unnecessary.