Teach me aggressiveness!

Hello from a small stakes player - with an 'aggression' problem

Many of us who don’t crush the game, but steadily feel our way up, often spend much time adjusting to the new level and end up loosing out to blind stealers and aggressive players.

I think lag of aggressiveness is a big problem for many “small stakes break-even players” – and really becomes evident when we try to move up stakes.

I can manage a minor profit at NL30 just by punishing players who overplay their cards – but when moving up to NL50 I don’t get much money from ‘over players’ (as players at this level better understand when to give up).
I end up as the passive player – and after a while as the calling station because of the frustrations.

A reason is that I didn’t master the aggressiveness at NL30 either, but at NL50 I see it as a necessity.

Hoping somene can advise me - maybe advise specific training videos dealing with this subject for NLH30/50/100 Full Ring.

Thanks
Tom

3bets means NOTHING!!! and i like to 5 bet overlyaggresive players. Take it from me $1.50 meansn othing with .50 in the pot or with pot ODDS ill risk losing $1.00 to get 4x or more my money...

It sounds like you should take a step back down to 30NL or lower. You don't want to move up prematurely.

If you are getting frustrated, don't play the game.. There are times when it's ok to play a hand timidly but in general, aggression has the advantage.

It seems that you have an idea of how you should be playing at 30NL. You should go back to that stake and build your skill level at that level instead of trying to find a way to beat a stake higher than what you are barely "breaking even" at..

Also, I think what you are asking is a little vague. What problem with aggression are you having? Are you asking about how to be MORE aggressive than you currently are?

That's a pretty daring blanket statement. 3bets might mean NOTHING from a player who is 3betting A LOT.

Otherwise, just like everything in poker, it depends... If their 3bet stats look like 1 ouf of 30 hands... I'd be willing to wager that their 3bet DOES mean SOMETHING..

Go to the golden archives ChuckT 10k post also in learning poker at the top Icemonkey9 has a 2k post. Both have some info that may get you headed in the right direction.

Also, in the words of leatherass (paraphrased) "if you're ever unsure of what to do in a situation (raise, call or fold)...always raise".

Are you sure you really mean agressiveness? Are you a very passive player? Or do you mean that you play too tight?

What and where is the Golden Archives? Is that on CC or where? Please advise...ty, Wally

There is really alot to consider with being an aggressive player, your chip stack, position, other aggressive players on the table... you dont want to get yourself caught! spread your rasing out about 5 winning hands to make the presents that you are tight to make the other player play more cautious agaisnt you (basically to make them not want to take a chance with you) but if you do it to often you will get caught... be careful of over aggressive on draws because its very readable. do that and position betting (not with 72os tho) i think will help your game... hope that helps you out!

I often find myself at tables (full ring NL50) where 3-4 other players almost own the table. They take turns at raising preflop (4-5 bb) and me, with my tight hand selection, folding and folding. Steadily "giving up" $.


Of course I reraise my AK's like the books tell you to do. But after c-betting flop 2,9,8 what do you do on x turn?


After 40 minutes of play without hitting a board (which you are most likely not to do), I start to get frustrated and I loose up my range – calling more expensive preflop raises (that keep coming), and afterwards folding even more hands postflop to c-bets, as my hands now have become worse than previously in the session – slowly eating my stack.

Yes Archives are in the general poker forum at the top.

OP if you are having questions about hands or situations feel free to put them in the analysis section and I am sure you will get some good feedback.

I have just been in a a situation where the a above scenario hapens again

94 hands villain plays (I am new to this - is this the numbers you refer to?) VPIP: 23 PFR: 1 3BET: 3

ANTES/BLINDS
oxuetnamente posts small blind ($0.25), HERO posts big blind ($0.50), DEALING_HOLE_CARDS
.

PRE-FLOP
Treibjagd folds, puma23 xxxx folds, hamburgsv27 folds, costasss1 calls $0.50, rochmans folds, salvodeli calls $0.50, chikubi1 folds, oxuetnamente calls $0.50,
HERO raises to $3,
costasss1 folds, salvodeli calls $3, oxuetnamente folds.

FLOP [board cards: JH,QC,2C ]

HERO bets $5, salvodeli calls $5.

TURN [board cards: JH,QC,2C,QD ]
HERO bets $7, salvodeli calls $7.

RIVER [board cards: JH,QC,2C,QD,5S ]
HERO checks, salvodeli bets $13, HERO folds.

SHOWDOWN
salvodeli wins $29.45.

He is a tight passive player - but when he hits he often get paid on several streets as he appears very weak.
He could actually be bluffing this time as I have seen him in other hands checking river with top pair - to keep pot low/call small bluff.


I know he is going to bet me out of the hand when I check river. I dont see a passive player calling these bets without top pair.
Although his big bet on river confuses me as I have seen him keep pots small like mentioned above.

are you serious? ....

In my opinion, if you think he checks all of the hands he's likely to have that could beat you and he bets less than half of the pot, call. You're getting better than 3:1 to make the call.

Tight passive (and for him to have only raised once pre-flop in a hundred hands he is very passive) could mean that he had the straight or flush draw. Throwing out odd bluffs is something bad players do frequently.
With that said, he could easily have had QJ or hit a set and feels that a full house is big enough to value bet. Still, if he's been consistantly checking on the river where he should be value betting I'd call. Simply because a read + good pot odds = call.



Btw, this hand is a bad example of aggression. - Unless you're considering your hand a bluff, if it was then firing two barrels is fine and against a tight passive is very standard but you considering the river call makes me think you were betting for value on the flop/turn.

Whatever you had (less than top pair good kicker from what you say) you should be checking. You're just building a pot against someone who's so tight that if he calls, you're screwed.

OOP is not the time to be aggressive. I mean, pre-flop, yes aggressive with a small range (i.e. almost never just call OOP pre-flop, raise or fold). Post-flop however you don't want to be betting marginal hands very often. If you bet and he calls then you built a bigger pot which you've got to keep betting into on later streets (you can check on later streets but will be bluffed quite a lot, and it's a really bad spot to be trying to call bluffs, given the pot size). Basically you're hoping he folds at some point, because if he hangs around to the river you know all you're going to get him to fold are busted draws.
I think against an unknown or weak opponent it's correct to have a very polarized range (only bluffs and big hands) when OOP and betting every street post-flop.

I too used to play too tight and too passive. I learned very quickly during live play to read people and when was the right time to over bet my middle pair or flat out bluff. Online however, I had a difficult transition and still have a difficult time without the use of a software program to help me with my reads.

Therefore, my suggestion to you, is to get HEM or PT3. These are legal software programs where you can track the stats of your opps as you play. Learning what these stats mean will help you significantly in determining when and against who is the best time to be aggressive and to bluff.

Hello miley & welcome to CC! This is definitely a big hurdle for some to overcome, learning to play a good TAG (tight aggressive) style.

My suggestions to you, because you are new to this forum are these:

1. When posting, keep all 1 liners "i want too" & "can you teach me" together in one post. Making separate posts for 1 line answers is not the way to increase your post count.

2. You need 65 QUALITY posts to qualify for the freerolls on this forum. Both of your posts above will not qualify as such. So try to be more specific in your questions/requests. Example: "I am also having a difficult time with aggression, it seems I rarely play my big blind (bb) because it is raised often and I fold it most of the time. Can someone offer some advice?".

These types of specific questions will get you more responses and the types of responses that will help you.

3. As a new member, you are limited to 7 posts per day. By making two posts, that are each one liners, you are wasting valuable posts.

4. Read through these message boards before asking questions:
Strategy, Learning Poker, Golden Archives, General Poker, Hand Analysis
Chances are your question has already been asked and answered, or you will find information that will help you to improve your game and help you understand how to post on a poker forum.

5. Try the search feature on the forum to look up information you are seeking.

"slowly eating my stack" << are you not replenishing your stack each & every time it drops below 100bbs?

Is this a rule that you follow no matter what?

Is it bad to only rebuy when down to 50-60 blinds?

The deeper you are the more of a skill edge there is. Also the larger the proffit/loss (and if we assume overall you're proffiting more than losing, this is a good thing).

Set auto rebuy to 100bb and never look back.

Hey mate, after going through ur problem, i think these 3 videos i found at web might help u in developing a strategy of ur own to tackle 50NL games...
Hope this be helpful to you...



http://www.ehow.com/video_4416978_wh...as-holdem.html

http://www.ehow.com/video_4416990_op...lay-poker.html

http://www.ehow.com/video_4416976_co...-strategy.html

YES!

I think it really depends on a lot of factors (table, blind level, chip counts relative to blinds, and of course the players at the table).

Sometimes a 3-bet does mean nothing, because somebody is likely just trying to re-steal, which is probably going to happen at a table with some LAG players. At a table where the players are tighter, it's more likely they're three betting with a strong hand. Of course, that's not ALWAYS the case.

It really boils down to getting a read on your opponents.

A phrase from the movie rounders comes to mind "if its good enought to call with it's good enough to raise with." Of course that's not always true there are many situations when a call is the best move. My favorite saying in poker and the one I play by is you have to be willing to die to live sometimes. You can't ever be afraid to put your chips in when you think you need to bluffing or not. That really helps me be very aggressive when I play. But you have to be careful because to me it's all about what limits and who you are playing with. If there is alot of money on the line people are more succeptable to bluffs they will let stronger hands go. In the low limits people will often call you that is unless you are playing with someone who has a small bankroll and only wants to get their money in with made hands.

your my hero :P

It's possible you're not playing enough in position? I've found that playing alot more in position has been showing more of a profit. I'll fold AQo in UTG at a full ring occasionally. So, don't mess around too much trying to steal pots when you're out of position... Position is king, at least that's what I've been learning.

Storm, this may well be the best relevant blog comments I've seen on Cardschat....you rock. I am relatively new as well and actually struggled to find my way around ... I had to request help and everytime got it. Maid Marion was a big help when I had couldn't even "see" the words I was typing into a blog because of Internet Explorer....once changing over to Mozilla FireFox, there is no problem. But, mostly, I simply am not that good with maneuvering around new sites & computers.

Thanks again for your very clear and helpful info. My best, Wally (Aka bullish06)

Hey, thanks for the great video links...helpful mate, Wally

Youre not playing only 1 person youre playing 7 to 9. I agree with raisinfg 5 times the big blind only if you can afford losing it so its bankroll mamnagement too but youre playing to win so find a table that yopu feel comfortable at if not leave find another. I know it sounds alittle crazy because you cant just go to ano0ther table in tounement play but just give it a shot.

I'm unsure if the request is to learn aggression overall or specific to the level you're currently @ (or want to be @).

For me, a nit, I'm striving for TAG. My skill set is predominately for live Limit play...online is wholly another arena for me. Although some peeps detest freerolls, I'm using them as a learning tool...it gives me an opp to practice concepts that I want to learn &/or improve, doesn't involve a buy-in expense & if I get KOed I dont really mind since my goal is to grasp a specific concept (vs being ITM or @ the Final Table or Take it Down).

I've been practicing being more aggressive (which is a major hurdle for a nit or this nit anyway) in the freerolls & it's developing into more of a habit which I carry over into the buy-in games. I'm continuing to use the freerolls to practice other concepts as well. Your skill level may be beyond this but it's just a thought. GL.

I think the problem is in like your repost you talk about starting to open up your calling range that is always a problem. That leads to tilt and just more bad play because you are bound to lose pots for the most part when you do this. If you want to be more agrresive open up on your opening pre flop raise range you must be first to enter the pot. Late position is also very important you want to have postion after the flop if they check to you this is really not a time to let go you should be firing continuation bets most of the time here the board does not matter.

These ^ aren't related to playing something like 50NL.
It's basic stuff for tourney-style play.

TY for the kind words! I'm glad my post was helpful to someone, makes it worthwhile then! MM is a great woman - if you've received help from her, then it is good help & you've gone to one of the right people. GL!

Hy guys

Thanks for all the replies.

My post is mostly related to preflop blind stealing/defending and avoid being call'ish preflop just to fold to his cbet on the flop.

The below hand is a step further in the hand. I felt so bad to fold here as I initially saw it as a blind steal (therefore didn't check his stats beforehand) but his reraise size made me sick. What do you guys do here?

Seat 1: HERO ($30.18 in chips) Seat 2: anoma ($26.92 in chips) Seat 3: SBlackbird ($50.68 in chips) Seat 5: ctof44 ($9.17 in chips) Seat 6: erojane ($28.41 in chips) Seat 8: Daugvar97 ($17.10 in chips) Seat 9: zuGeee ($28.55 in chips) Seat 10: zooqcac ($44.09 in chips) ANTES/BLINDS
SBlackbird posts small blind ($0.15), The blind have been denied by player, erojane posts big blind ($0.30), DEALING_HOLE_CARDS
.

PRE-FLOP
Daugvar97 folds, zuGeee folds, zooqcac raises to $0.90, HERO calls $0.90, anoma folds, SBlackbird folds, erojane folds.

FLOP [board cards: 4H,AS,6H ]

zooqcac bets $1.35, HERO raises to $3.90,
zooqcac
raises to $10.25,
HERO folds.

SHOWDOWN
zooqcac wins $9.55.


I only had 33 hands on him saying vpip 12 - PFR 0 3BET 0

Is the mistake here that his stats tell me he is not a stealer = I fold? (dispite his posiion).

Sorry guys - in thand above I have A J offs.

I'm not completely without aggression. This was just based on my feeling as he has previously floated and stolen on the turn. Made up my mind that I would barrel all streets - so I would obstruct his float bet

zuGeee posts small blind ($0.15), HERO posts big blind ($0.30), DEALING_HOLE_CARDS
HERO: 7c, Qd


PRE-FLOP
zooqcac folds, followmePL folds, eesaa folds, c0in_Fl1p folds, iceaicnd folds, t montana x folds, mmnbcc folds, BAD-BOSS57 folds, zuGeee calls $0.30, HERO checks.

FLOP [board cards: 6H,4H,JD ]
DEALING_FLOP
, zuGeee bets $0.45, HERO raises to $0.90, zuGeee calls $0.90.

TURN [board cards: 6H,4H,JD,3D ]
DEALING_TURN
, zuGeee checks, HERO bets $2, zuGeee calls $2.

RIVER [board cards: 6H,4H,JD,3D,9C ]
DEALING_RIVER
, zuGeee checks, HERO bets $9, zuGeee folds.

SHOWDOWN
HERO wins $6.08.

Again I made the mistake to decide my actions before checking his stats. Afterwards i could see they supported my play...but.

Is it at all a good play? - felt like a big amount to risk compared to win sum. Just felt it was needed.