OK I hope to be learning alot more here about my various leaks; I am really getting so much out of reading the other threads about improving at cash games;

I've started playing at a newish site on the everleaf network, the traffic is very low, I've been at the site for a bout a week and have done well to build a small BR from SnG freerolls/MTTs and have not made any deposits yet (and i may not at all).

Typically won't play more than 5 tables at one time; I started earning on .04NL and within a couple hundred hands had a cash game BR of near $10. . . . .
. . . .Several hundred hands later and a bad session yesterday; and I'm down about the same. . . .
I switched from .04/nl to .02/nl-6max; and now am frustrated with my play.

I know I have leaks and just want to fix them; that even with the +/_EV swings, i want to be becoming a more solid player.

Here is my up to date cash game graph; the losses came when I switched to .02/ 6max tables. Please feel free to point out anything, I appreciate feedback and advice.

Amount Won in USD over Hands Played.jpg (http://www.cardschat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=39674&d=1315327190)

I'm not computer savvy I'm trying to learn how to enlarge and upload stuff, sorry fo rthe small size.

Also I'll post some specific hands and my basic stats; vp,pfr,afq, etc.

Hey man,
So what is you bankroll now? It looks from the graph like you lost the $10 you built up. Would you not consider depositing $40 or so to get you going with a proper roll for 2NL?
If I understood correctly you switched from full-ring to 6max? It will take a bit of time getting used to it if you normally play full ring.
GL, hope it goes well, let us know

Here are some hands that I know I should have folded; but I will post several hands to hopefully give a better idea to determining my specific leaks,
Minted - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
SB: $0.74
BB: $5.08
UTG: $1.94
Hero (CO): $1.52
BTN: $3.56
SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has 8♣ 8♥
UTG calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.08, fold, SB calls $0.07, fold, UTG calls $0.06
Flop: ($0.26, 3 players) 4♣ 7♣ 9♦
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($0.26, 3 players) 8♦
SB bets $0.26, fold, Hero calls $0.26
River: ($0.78, 2 players) J♠
SB bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40
[spoil]SB shows 5♣ 6♣ (Straight, Nine High) (Pre 20%, Flop 46%, Turn 77%)
Hero shows 8♣ 8♥ (Three of a Kind, Eights) (Pre 80%, Flop 54%, Turn 23%)
SB wins $1.51
[/spoil]

Thanks MM!
My total BR is 23 rite now;

here is another hand w/ a set of 8's on the flop. . .lol. . .

Minted - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
BB: $2.57
BTN: $4.98
Hero (SB): $0.66
Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has 8♥ 8♦
BTN raises to $0.10, Hero calls $0.09, fold
Flop: ($0.22, 2 players) T♥ 8♠ K♥
Hero bets $0.22, BTN calls $0.22
Turn: ($0.66, 2 players) 2♥
Hero bets $0.34, BTN calls $0.34
River: ($1.34, 2 players) 9♣
[spoil]BTN shows K♣ K♠ (Three of a Kind, Kings) (Pre 80%, Flop 91%, Turn 77%)
Hero shows 8♥ 8♦ (Three of a Kind, Eights) (Pre 20%, Flop 9%, Turn 23%)
BTN wins $1.28
[/spoil]

My overall cash game stats 668 hands are:
VP$IP- 26; PFR-9; AFq (pref)-10/ 44 avg. flop

I've already decided that I will study today instead of doing any ring games


And here is a winning hand; from .04nl

minted - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
UTG: $3.18
BTN: $2.63
Hero (SB): $7.34
BB: $1.15
Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04
Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has A♥ Q♥
fold, BTN calls $0.04, Hero calls $0.02, BB raises to $0.16, BTN calls $0.12, Hero calls $0.12
Flop: ($0.48, 3 players) 9♥ T♠ Q♣
Hero bets $0.48, BB raises to $0.99, fold, Hero calls $0.51
Turn: ($2.46, 2 players) T♥
River: ($2.46, 2 players) 5♠
Hero shows A♥ Q♥ (Two Pair, Queens and Tens) (Pre 70%, Flop 83%, Turn 93%)
BB shows 8♦ A♦ (One Pair, Tens) (Pre 30%, Flop 17%, Turn 7%)
Hero wins $2.34

Turn on auto rebuy to keep you at 100bbs

AQs raise pre dont limp

26/9 way too passive raise more instead of limping

Thank you! for the good points; I should have mentioned also that I am a SnG/Mtt player for many years and not really a ton of prior online ring games.. . . .

I just re-read the baluga theorem and a great very long article about WA/WB;

ya I normally do raise pre if its a hand in range 4 position etc. . .I read in another thread from stu or vlad maybe, anyway, or guide to beating micros. . .

about staying away from "fancy" plays in the micro cash games, as most of these players will not know or understand most of the specific charted plans and specific actions a reg. will take in any given hand..

Is it wrong in this situation to disguise a monster starting hand pre-flop by limping from the SB?

I am asuming that it depends on who the villians are? and how easily they will fold. . facing a PFR . .as I am only 700 hands into this this poker room (for the 10/6 max rings) and don't have near enough info on opponents.

Anyway thank u fo looking ut and the advice! I really appreciate it

subscribing, gl bud.

thanks KD!; I keeping up with you and MMs threads also;

Ok true to statement made yesterday I did not play any cash rings games at all yesterday, and used that 3+ hrs to read and study; I am going to do something that I have not done before, and give it a try to see how it works;

I am going to rail a few tables for a good 10-20 mins. before deciding to sit in; I read some advice from another member here that made me think that it could be a good idea since I have very limited info of my opponents. I'll update next chance i get.

1 other thing, i did play several freeoll SnGs; and I know there is a difference in play, but I made a 3bet on 2 occasions with face PPs in the blinds, both times I was called flop was an Ace overcard on deck both times; flop was checked around, and led the turn and both times villains folded. . . .hmmm. . . .

GL, will be following

Ok well, Didn't get on any rings yesterday; was having one of those days;

Played some 10-plr SnG freerolls; and was just not playing well; when I had large PPs they were getting cracked, and just couldn't get the flops to flop 4 me;
so did a little more hand history research;

My SnG stats are so different from my cash stats; here are both for comparison:

SnG Stats:
56K Hands (Minted Poker)
VP$IP=19%
PFR=15%
Steal Succes=83% (no flop); 98% (WW/OSD)-hehehe
Steal attempts=24%
AgFReq.=53%

____________________
Cash Stats:
My overall cash game stats: 668 hands are:
VP$IP- 26; PFR-9; AFq (pref)-10/ 44 avg. flop

stop limping + overcalling to reduce the gap between your PFR and VPIP

Thanks Jurn,

I never used to limp, had a diff. scname but when i was at FT, they had the FT academy thing, which was a very cool little program; complete w/ challenges for real money games that were directly relate dto a specific lesson- in additon to making money, ft academy would also award prizes for lesson completion. . . .anywy, one of the lessons and I can't remeber who it was dealt directly w/ limping vs. raising, etc. . .

SO this is my question:
When is it ok (or is it ok) to limp to disguise a monster? I've sen ppl limp all the way to the riv. only to get crackeed. . .so I know at least the basics here,
u r right about pfr though, I've gotten in a strange habit of limping too much me thinks. . .

Just forget about limping to start with, raise if you want to enter the pot. Worry about trapping later when you've got the basic ABC stuff nailed

Ok so a positive little 200 hand .01/.02nl FR/6max session last night; Cash Game BR up another $2.57; about to go get on it again. . . .

ok had another very positive quick dip for a bout 200 hands yesterday; really wish i coulda had more time, but had to do Dad stuff; Here is a little fun HH; from a LAG-calling station- his VP$IP over 70ish hands was 68%/ pfr of like 6% (i think, it may have been a little higher +3 @ most). Here is 1 hand on a FR tabe:

Everleaf - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
CO: $1.97
Hero (BTN): $1.88
SB: $2.24
BB: $1.88
UTG: $3.01
UTG+1: $3.13
MP: $1.24
MP+1: $0.37
LP: $5.66
SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has 6♠ 6♦
fold, fold, MP calls $0.02, fold, LP calls $0.02, fold, Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, fold, LP calls $0.06
Flop: ($0.21, 2 players) Q♦ K♣ 9♦
LP checks, Hero bets $0.10, LP calls $0.10
Turn: ($0.41, 2 players) 6♣
LP checks, Hero bets $1.70, LP calls $1.70
River: ($3.81, 2 players) 2♣
Hero shows 6♠ 6♦ (Three of a Kind, Sixes) (Pre 63%, Flop 10%, Turn 95%)
LP shows 9♥ 6♥ (Two Pair, Nines and Sixes) (Pre 37%, Flop 90%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins $3.62

Raise more Pre flop 4x +1 per limper so in the hand above raising to .12, this gives you a better chance of playing the pot heads-up opposed to multiway which sucks.

C-bet is fine although i'd probably c-bet just over half pot as i think it'd work more often, obviously giving up straight away if we didnt improve and if villain was a calling station who doesn't fold to c-bets much i wouldn't even bother c-betting.

I think you got a little confused with the player types a 70/6 doesn't seem like a LAG, to me he's a loose passive. So get a hand that can flop a nice top pair type and bet until they play back at you. I might not even bother raising 66 there against two limpers if i thought they were the type of players to call c-bets with anything as 66 isn't a type of hand that flops well, but i like your idea to raise it and take it down with a c-bet thats the most common line and the most effective generally, nice one.

You r may b right: about LAP- but the aggro. ness was always post flop; other reads I had was his c-bet call% and his call3bet%; i had been wacthin the table for about 15 mintues or so before joining; what i noticed, though he would always raise/or donk bet post flop even into wet boards w/ just hilarious hands; but he was also catching alot of great starting hands.

You r def. rite about folding it down; now that I think about it more; when he checked down the flop- i was very confused; so i raised it about 1/2 pot; then when he checked back the turn; thats when i got very confused; i thought he either had air on the flop or like 98o. . .but he seemed it was sumhow his duty bound to call any c-bets; obviously if 6 hadn't hit the turn i woulda checked it down.
Ya i don't really like 66 even from CO or Btn.
Thanks for the feedback!

Not to be mean but wtf are you doing on the turn, trying to fold out all his Qx and draw hands with a set?

Ya I know what u r saying; and appreciate it, maybe its generic to say but i felt confident w/ the hand after watching his play for nearly 1.5 hrs. I know I know I know; prob. not very logical,

I appreciate what u are gettin at.. . .and trying to convey.

Yeah the turn you kind of went mental which i dont understand either but about 66, its a hand you should like from the cut off and button, i was just making an example that, if you know someone to be a calling station who is never going to fold to cbets and turn cbets then 66 wouldn't be the best hand to isolate them with. Generally though if its limped round to me and i have 66 in the last 3 positions or so im happy to raise it up and try and take it down with a c-bet.

Again thank you both!
the way he had been playing and his hand selection was def. telling me on this hand, he did not have a draw, as much as I don't like to admit when i am wrong, I am here. but i appreciate some1 being honest with me about it,

i will say this, im not new to HE, but I am going to be humble in my posts becuz that is the only way to improve; my read turned out to be correct here but u are so right about it, whether the read was right or not is sumwhat irrelevent to solid play, this was not a very logical way to play it. . .

it doesn't matter whether or not you think he had a draw, all betting that big is going to do is max out your fold equity which is the last thing you want to do when you are way ahead.

just bet pot and jam river. pre seems OK, i don't mind limping behind either.

well, i'm gonna be doing some more HH review and some more study 2day,

my stats are up after 1,110 hands I am now; 24.6/17.3; and re evaluating the advice about limping v. pfr-

I'm re-reading some stuff; am gonna try to re-boost my confidence level;

my BR is now 43; so i am properly rolled for 2nl;

as always ty all for the feedback as I do not want to be a losing or breakeven player . . .

good luck, 24/17 is a good improvement and definitely heading in the right direction, make sure you're not calling raises with junk hands when you're against a range that has you crushed/beat. Like a 18/14 opens UTG and you're in the cut-off with something like AT, AJ, probably best to just fold, yet a lot of people are attached to there big cards. Just saying this because im guessing you're gonna be playing a bit too loose at the moment, but we'll sort that keep us posted.

Wayy earlier, i n the 8s hand where it was like 875 or something... cbet that flop all day imo... what is your cbet stat? also when posting these hands put stats up for the players if you have any decent sample... also dont bother looking at ev on the graph, it is really rarely accurate... and with the 8s on the KJ8 board its a pretty standard cooler I think you could even bet/fold river

lol. . .

ok maybe a bit 2 humble on my part; but please keep it coming; i ain't no pro

I've cashed in 2 b2b years live WPT NLHE Pre-events- and have been playing for 9 years; 4 of which I would regard as "thought-full" play, b4 hand was a breakeven+ player; but i am NOT going to be one of those ppl that can't admit they made a mistake or is ego-centric; "if you've arrived whats the point" there is nothing more to learn. . .lol. . .not me (of course)

for 2010 live 2/2 (1/2+bbjpot=2/2) - i was +$1,246; for 2011 i am so far +$465;

maybe i'm just gonna back off this thing as there are too many deeply felt opinions; and rhetoric about playing a specific hand that a nonaqueisceint individiual had direct context with, nor was played perfectly. . . .lol

idk/ i am new to this forum so. . . .fm. . .

btw i'm on another positive sesh. . .up $1.18

done 4 now. . .4-2day. . . .up $4.27 on 2nl/FR.. .after this sesh;
a couple hands. . . . . .

Everleaf - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
MP+1: $0.90
LP: $2.00
CO: $2.25
BTN: $9.06
Hero (SB): $3.92
BB: $2.40
UTG: $1.93
UTG+1: $2.30
MP: $1.20
Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02, LP posts DB $0.02
Pre Flop: ($0.05) Hero has K♠ A♣
fold, fold, MP calls $0.02, MP+1 calls $0.02, LP checks, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.12, fold, MP calls $0.10, fold, LP calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.40, 3 players) J♥ J♠ 2♠
Hero checks, MP checks, LP checks
Turn: ($0.40, 3 players) K♥
Hero bets $0.20, MP calls $0.20, LP calls $0.20
River: ($1.00, 3 players) 5♦
Hero bets $0.20, MP calls $0.20, LP calls $0.20
Hero shows K♠ A♣ (Two Pair, Kings and Jacks)
Hero wins $1.52


. . . .and another. . . . .

Everleaf - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
BTN: $1.86
SB: $3.66
BB: $2.04
Hero (UTG): $1.82
MP: $2.54
CO: $2.11
SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has A♣ Q♥
Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.08, fold, fold
Flop: ($0.19, 2 players) 9♣ J♣ K♣
Hero bets $0.10, BTN calls $0.10
Turn: ($0.39, 2 players) 6♣
Hero checks, BTN checks
River: ($0.39, 2 players) 5♦
Hero bets $0.39, BTN calls $0.39
Hero shows A♣ Q♥ (Flush, Ace High)
Hero wins $1.12

ok a little more info:

There are several reasons why i am wanting to be grinding out 2nl to feel confidant about a move into 4nl. . .to move on to 5nl. . . .etc... . .

1.) BR came from $0

2.) I want to grow and do it the right way

3.) I have a lot to learn and what better place to do it

4.) "Why do all the truly great players struggle to make a profit at 2NL?
Its because a lot of 2NL players are delusional. They think they are good but wont accept they are wrong. Its like someone believing they are a decent swimmer, loosing race after race to a bunch of paraplegics and blaming it on their choice of swimwear.

Think it t[h]rough, you have been playing poker for a few years now, you havent moved past the first level, surely that means you are doing it wrong and arguing with, or ignoring the advice given isnt going to help you advance, lets face it you are not going to advance without help, because if that was going to happen, it would have happened a long time ago."[from cc member stu_ungar]

in the AK hand, bet a bit more on the river - 60 cents or so, and in the AQ hand bet the turn

Heres a hand i won w/out SD; The board had some scary potential- maybe for villain also; I though to jam the turn in case he was trying to draw out,
we both still had fold equity- me more so but I'm open to input about the way I played it-or how would you have played it?

Everleaf - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
BTN: $1.97
SB: $2.04
BB: $2.08
UTG: $2.02
Hero (UTG+1): $3.92
MP: $2.68
MP+1: $3.57
LP: $4.55
CO: $0.74
SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has J♠ K♥
fold, Hero raises to $0.08, MP calls $0.08, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.07, fold
Flop: ($0.26, 3 players) 6♦ 5♥ J♥
SB bets $0.14, Hero raises to $0.68, fold, SB calls $0.54
Turn: ($1.62, 2 players) 2♠
SB checks, Hero bets $1.62, fold
Hero shows J♠ K♥ (One Pair, Jacks)
Hero wins $1.54

on another +EV sesh; so far +$2.13; there are several hands I will post that were interesting; and worth looking at.

My PT3 is acting up, and not showing yesterdays or todays hands; i originally had to do a manual import from hard drive; o well; not sure why this is fussing w/ me. . .my graph is coming back up. . . . . .

1 other thing to add: I'm on a newer skin of everleaf, and so i had previously withdrawn ($0-$98-(75 was my withdraw)) into my picclub/ then via check; just 2 see how reliable w/draws were. . .I'm glad I did this, but still am slightly frustrated that I did this.

ANYHOO. . . .I'm glad because I believe I am learning something new to me about online play. . . .which is patience in building from $0. . .I remember someone tellin me as a kid a cool lymeric: "Patience, Patience; Have it if you can, seldom in a woman. . . .Never in a man. . . .lol. . .

hope all r having a good day-evening. . w/e

Do we have any stats for sb?

First mistake in the hand is playing the hand, KJ in this position is pretty much always a fold for me.

As played i think i'd rather just call sb's flop bet and keep in hands we beat, raising would just get rid of his total bluffs and some worse hands and if he was to shove over your raise what would you of done then? i wouldn't feel too happy stacking top pair K kicker here.... Then when he checks the turn i'd bet for value, then if he checked river i'd bet again for value but it all depends on the player, this is just my line if he's a loose passive type of player. It could all be different depending on who we're against.