Switching to Ring

Here's my situation: Over the winter I built up a BR of about $2500 starting with $100, playing mainly 6 max SNGs. I cashed in a few MTT's that I was properly rolled for as well. I plan on playing a lot this summer after my third year of college finishes up in a few weeks. I'd just like some help from the ringers here at CC, maybe some threads or books to get started...where I should start, FR or 6 max, ect...

There are a few advantages to playing in ring games, so be sure to exploit them.
Choose tables wisely. Look for a high see-the-flop percentage. That's your first priority. Second, look for large pot sizes. People have different opinions about stack sizes but I like playing games where a lot of people have close to the full buy-in.
Remember you can leave any time you want. If the table dries up, leave.
If a table you're on the waiting list for wants to put you in a bad seat, pass on it.

As for what to play, I like six-max. The smaller table means you can play more hands, which attracts wilder players who like action. Also, you get to play in position (where the money is made) more often.

For a tighter, more laid back game you can play FR. I think that'd bet boring unless you had several tables going at once though, as if you're learning I think it's best to play just one, maybe two.

Check out the Ring Game Hand Analysis section. There are lots of opinions in there. Some are better than others, but when there's conflict you could do worse than to give Tenbob and ChuckTs's opinions a bit more credit.

Also, check out the ring games in the video section. ChuckTs has some good ones in there.

Tournaments are different in that you can leave with a profit if *nobody* busts, and the blinds don't go up, so you are not forced to act. You can sit back and choose your battles, so it's a more conservative game.

Also, should you get bad-beat by a donkey you can rebuy, keeping your position/image/reads. Plus the donkey now has more chips for you to win, and since he's up he's more likely to spew them. Just don't tilt and act dumb to get them back.

The major difference is the stack sizes. You play much deeper at cash tables than tournaments. You can't go committing your stack with TPTK as you usually can in a tournament. Deeper stacks allow you to play more hands preflop but they require you to have a better hand to commit a good amount of money to the pot.

As to books I liked Sklansky's NLHE theory and practice as well as the new Harrington on Cash game books although I would NOT get the latter if you are new to the ring games, just because no offense, but a lot of the theory would probably go over your head. But as you get more experience with ring games and get better at the basic concepts such as pot control, implied odds, reverse implied odds, etc. you could benefit from the Harrington books. Actually if you don't mind spending the money I actually would recommend the Harrington books but I would be sure to re-read them after some time as I'm sure you'd pick more up. But if when you think of spending $70 on a set of poker books you think that's a good chunk of money I'd wait, as if you read them with no ring experience they probably won't be worth it.

And of course as SP mentioned the HA sections are great and I agree that ChuckTs and Tenbob are usually spot on. But of course they're not always right and there are always multiple ways to play hands so read some of the discussions and really pay attention to why people are advocating each play. Although they're the same game, tournaments and cash games have several subtle yet crucial differences.

What limits are you planning on starting at?

Alright--thanks a lot zachvac. Last summer I built up a roll to around 1200 and was playing way outside of my BR. One aspect I am proud of is, like I stated in the OP, i built this bankroll up following proper BM. With this in mind, maybe I would start at 25NL? This would allow me 40 buy ins with a 1K roll, instead of 20 buy ins at the 50NL game.

Like zach said, I think the biggest difference you'll find is dealing with the deep stacks. Get used to the concept of setting certain sized pots for certain hand strengths. Harrington's cash game books and professional nlhe by ed miller both deal with the issue nicely.

With your BR around 1200 I'd start at 25nl and as soon as you feel comfortable moving to 50 go right ahead, $1200 is plenty.

As Chuck mentioned, you've got plenty of cash for 50nl, but I would start at 25nl. From 10nl to 25nl is probably the biggest skill jump imo but a solid game will beat either 25nl or 50nl. The difference in 25nl and 50nl isn't that big, with 50nl being slightly better and several more decent to good regs, but 25nl will allow you to settle in without a huge risk. Once you feel comfortable and can consistently beat 25nl you can move up to 50nl. Hopefully soon I'll see you there .

Okay, just some general questions before I begin in a few weeks..

1. How many tables should I play at once?
2. Can I still find a profit and a way to track sessions without using Poker Tracker just yet. I know this probably sounds stupid...but I wanted to get my ring game going before making the investment.

Trust me, get your mits on pokertracker. I think that PT3 is still in free beta but im not sure, so get that.

If I was you i'd start out playing just the single table and add others once you feel comfortable, gradually move up to 4 and decide from there. Id also recomment playing a few thousand hands at nl$10 to get a feel for playing deep stacked, and move up as soon as you feel comfortable.

Oh : Feel free to post and hands your unsure of in HA

Definitely definitely get Poker Tracker, or at least the PT3 beta. Can't say enough about how important it will be for you. Yes, you can still profit without it, but it's an invaluable tool.

Multitabling is just something you learn to do with practice. I started out trying two tables just to see my brain asplode, but am now 12-tabling very profitably. Poker Tracker will again help in this area. Try two tables, then move up to 3 or 4 if you're comfortable enough. You'll soon see how profitable it is and will be adding as many as you can.

My advice fwiw, is try out FR 1st before 6max. 6Max is definately were you want to end up in your poker career, but to learn cash games and take advantage of less variance, then go for FR. I wish I had started out in FR initially and built up a decent BR there. I started out with 6max, built up an ok BR, but then stagnated and couldn't progress beyond 50nl. 6 max tends to have bigger variance so be prepared for big swings. I'm now at Fr building a decent BR, hopefully progressing to 100nl pretty soon. Then eventually I'll be back at 6 max.

This is so true I started on a 6 max site and when I deposited at PokerStars I got killed for so long. After a month I found my feet again and got in profit if I hit the 200 dollar mark I will hit 6 seats again (may not sound like much, but is a big thing if I can hit it.)

Okay, so a few more..

1. Where can I find the beta version of Poker Tracker?
2. And is the strategy for FR much different than playing 6 max?

Thanks so much for your help everyone. I was playing 100NL with only about a 1500 BR last summer before I learned proper BRM and really want to start with a fresh 1K and begin playing rings profitably. I felt like I was playing super tight at FR..is this the way to go?

Google is your friend

PokerTracker - Online Poker Tracking & Analysis Software Tool

FR is definitely different than 6-max. I'd say FR is more of a nut-peddling game with a few steals and bluffs thrown in. 6-max is more steals, positional play, and tons of marginal situations, ie harder.

I can't say much about 6-max because I'm trash at it, but with FR the ideal style is basically nitty which also goes hand in hand with multitabling. That's why people can handle 12+ tables at a time playing FR.

hi chuck if i start a blog will u reed it

Thanks a lot, I'm finding this all very helpful--I had PT3 the beta version before but didn't understand how to use it. I have removed it from my computer, re downloaded it, and am starting fresh with the guide they give on the site. Why I didn't look for that before...I don't know, my bad. Now, if I begin auto import, will this import previous HH's that are saved to my computer? I think it would be better if I started fresh, since most of my HH's are from SNGs and tournament play, with only a few ring games...Or should I import all the information I have already?

Also...is Poker Tracker something that you open up before you begin a session, and it updates as you play? Or do you keep it closed until you finish a session, then open it and load the data?

dude it would be the new bible, ****ing do it already

You can do it either way, but the way people usually use it is in-game. They let it run while keeping the HUD on, and the stats update real-time. This is one of the biggest and best functions of Poker Tracker aside from away from the table analysis.

It won't matter much if you import your old stuff or not really. If you want to omit your previous play, just go and clear the pokerstars HH folder.

Well you did have this, haven't updated in forever though.

VP

So I just started using Poker Tracker, and I have to say--very sick. I appriciate all of the regs, bare with me...in the future I'll try finding other posts, using google, or other tools to find answers before bothering you with answers I can easily find on my own. Tyty

Is there anywhere that gives direct definitions to do abbreviations the program uses?

thanks chuck--i played about 100 hands a little while ago, reloaded FT and Poker Tracker and now it's starting fresh with my hands in PT. I checked the HH box in my full tilt program..any ideas?

not sure what you mean is going wrong?

You have 'save hand histories to xxx directory' check in FT but Poker Tracker isn't importing the files? If so do you have PT3 set to the proper directory?

PT3's forums are very helpful by the way, feel free to post there if you have problems. I don't mind helping, but I'm sure they can provide better support. It also helps with the beta if you encounter a bug.

I think for some reason I was expecting to see my previous hands in the section of hands that are being uploaded as i play...my mistake.

Yeah, the peronal stats you see in the HUD (Heads Up Display) are just your stats for that table. It's a bit more relevant than your career stats, as it helps you understand how the other players perceive you.

And of course the other people's stats are the cumulation of all your past experience with them.