Stealing from sb when folded to you

Hi guise!

I am trying to get your opinions in this since I have some mixed feelings towards this subject.

Stealing from the sb on a FR table when it is folded to you.

Do you do it ? I do it sometimes but not always, it just feels so awkward. I always have the feeling it just screams STEAL.

Also what kind of players do you do this against (stats)? And what are your bet sizes and hand ranges ?

And is it at all profitable ? Maybe I'm paranoid but I get a feeling I get played back at more. Of course we always have a flop cbet up our sleeve etc but still..

I minraise close to 100%.

Enty, i play 25nl FR and this is def something i do regularly

i generally do it to anybody running like 15 vpip or less, has a very high fold BB to steal %, or a person who folds to lots of C-bets because that adds some more profit to it

most players even if they think your making a play wont know how to do anything about it because they won't 3 bet with garbage and besides if someone starts to show heavy resistance you can stop

its a great way to be immediatly profitable and they may try to fight back when you actually have a hand so thats a plus

just dont get carried away doing it with complete garbage or against LAGs who you know wont fold

You've basically just explained my whole stealing attitude.
But that's from btn to HJ. I don't really do this at sb often.

And Zachvac, does the minraise actually work ?
Do you cbet most flops then?

this pretty much works the same way only you'll be out of position when he calls so thats kind of a turn off about it

thats begging someone to come over the top.

I will make 1 or 2 steals blind on blind then I will attempt the same move again and repeat the same bet size everything when I have a monster. Hopefully they are trapping me with a weak ace or something, ready to come over the top if I try and steal.

The converse is also true, often as the small blind limping to a BB, the BB
tosses in a steal bet, and the sb folds. we know its a steal, thats why I will limp with a monster every so often when up against a blind stealing bully in the BB.

Against nits/TAG players at 10nl, I've been stealing sometimes with ATC from the SB. I've found it to be very profitable. Against the LAGs, it might be weak, but I'm folding a lot here without a good holding so I don't have to play them fools OOP.

Yes, obviously it's villain dependent. Not quite sure how much I like it but the big thing is that you only need folds 50%. Take a look at pokerstove and select 50%. Here it is for reference:

33+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J4s+,T6s+,96s+,86s+,76s,65s,A2o +,K5o+,Q7o+,J7o+,T8o+,98o

How many people are defending with hands like K5o? 65s? Then on top of that a lot of people call too much (and I include 50% as too much) and then fold to cbets way too easily. It does kinda suck being oop when both players know ranges are wide and there are a few opponents who are good enough that I don't do this because they just call super-wide and own me with position. But overall I think it's a pretty profitable move. Of course that's only against opponents who know how to fold. If they're calling stations then just own them with value hands imo.

That's when I bring out the light 4-bet. And with my raise size I set up a pot to stack that's pretty sweet because I risk like 20-25% of my stack for my opponent's entire stack assuming we're 100 BBs deep.

So would you recommend this minraise for 25nl ?
Maybe minus the light 4 bet.

It's all villain-dependent. Since it's against one opponent just look at their stats. Are they a 12/10 and folding to steal attempts? Or are they an 88/45 who never folds? Sure the stakes have to do with what kind of player, but you just have to tailor it for the player. It's like a cbet, you don't cbet when you miss the flop against an 88/45 who never folds, you just value bet him thin while the 80/5 who just folds flops he misses you cbet all day long. It's all about adjustments.

i think you need to be careful no matter what the limits are. theres always that chance that you will get a raise back at you and then you will be forced to throw your hand away. if your hand isnt worth playing to begin with i wouldn't bother with trying to steal.

That is extremely flawed logic.

The point of stealing is to use hands you normally throw in the muck as a tool to pick up the blinds and some limpers sometimes.

If you do it well the times you pick up the small pots will greatly outnumber the money you lose when being forced to fold.

Thats where I disagree. I am usually betting 90% of the time if it is folded to me in the SB. Currently I am grinding 25NL but I feel most people are weak and will fold. This also gives you an image of being a constant bettor etc so that people will start to not believe you. If you pound these clowns eventually they make a mistake. The thing is that the times u take down the SB, eventually make up for the times they do call. A lot of the time they end up calling and folding to cbets anyways. This is +ev especially when they hit middle pair and you wake up with AA in the SB and they call down. Obviously it is villian dependent like people have said where you don't want to do it against a super lagtard but we all know that anyways. I should also add I play 6max but I would not change my SB strat at all for FR. Also I should suggest 6max FR is boring man. GL

-Any2

Stealing from the small blind seems easier for me than stealing from the button. The tricky thing is, the BB might reraise big just to test the waters. then the pressure is all in your hands now. If your odds are higher than 50% than call obviously.

I don't like the idea of it. The main reason I can convince myself to steal from the button is that even if it doesn't work, at least you have position. This isn't the case from the SB.

u can raise against a tight player and u will ussually take his blind. You can also raise against a superaggressive player who will try to outplay u with his better position. so u will need to have good cards to raise against this player.

Just keep in mind if u raise one revolution and become successfull it means the next revaloution if its folded to u in SB again if u want to call this time it looks a whole lot weaker and the BB will ussually raise if u just call.

Stealing from SB while you are being on the BB is very proftale since you are always on position and thus even if he knows you are stealing he doesnt know your range. However, stealing from SB would be very very rare since if everyone has folded to the button he should have raised to steal himself.

Stealing from the SB is extremely profitable, and if there's a tight player in the BB I will raise any two cards from the small blind. The fact that you're out of position doesn't factor in at all because you don't need to win any money postflop to show a profit from the steal. If you raise to 3xbb, and he calls 35% of the time, you can check/fold any flop and still win money.

But of course, some of the time that he calls, you'll have a real hand. Or at least will flop one. So there's still a chance to win money postflop - but the only way you can fail to win money through steals versus someone who isn't a really solid player or a calling station is if you start spewing postflop whenever you get called.

For reference, this is what a 35% hand range looks like:

22+,A2s+,K5s+,Q6s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,A4o+,K8o+,Q9 o+,J9o+,T9o

... and this is 50%:

22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J4s+,T6s+,96s+,86s+,76s,65s,A2o +,K5o+,Q7o+,J7o+,T8o+,98o

imo....you did nothing wrong...i feel its a profitable way to play....the only thing i see wrong is your on the internet....the probability of someone donking you is high...and dont forget our friend the rng....it seems to favor the idiot who just called you with rags...or am i alone on this???

Ok, what am I supposed to see in the hand ranges ?
50% is our steal% on sb vs a 35% calling range right ?

Please explain

Yea I think thats what hes reffering too

u need to steal it some times but i never overbet it always 3 to 4 times the blinds cause he might have aces or is stronger then u and then u need to get lucky on the flop

always hate the all in push from sb against bb causewhen he has AA KK or AK suit he will call and then ur gone, so risk it small and dont risk it all.

and dont do it every round cause ur opponent will call u 1 time also what is like doing when stole the last round next round i have a real strong hand then i only call and hope he will raise me like i did to him the round before most of the time he does cause he didnt forget ur steal and hopefully he now goes all in on ur aces

No, just showing what different calling ranges look like. In order to not be immediately profitable when stealing w 3xBB, your opponent needs to call with the at least the 35% range I listed. In order not to be profitable when minraise stealing, your opponent needs to call with at least the 50% range. My point is that they're wide - and tight players fold most of those hands, making SB stealing wildly profitable.

Oh ok, thanks.
I didn't really get why we would minraise the bb almost 100% but I guess that answers it, sort of.

I still 4x all of my stealing range and maybe down to J8+ Q7+ Ax, Kx and any SC's + Gap Sc's. Most of the time villian folds even if they call I will Cbet OOP + villians will usually fold. If they call then ok maybe they have a hand but maybe this is a small leak from me I am not sure.