SNG problem (playing against maniac donk raises)

Anyone else have a prob keeping a decent M early in SNG when your getting donks making every (and i mean every) flop very expensive early on (and you just know they have hands like Ax Kx and other trash), this wasn't a problem before i had success playing my super-tight game until i get that one hand to call with but even with that i feel uncomfortable and even if i push them all in with AA or KK its still rolling the dice and i prefer to build my stack by outplaying the opponent(i like to play as the aggressor and dont like calling) i find myself getting frustrated and trying to avoid tilting (and ending up with a weak stack mid game).

Anyone else had problems with this??? any advice for how to play against these super loose donks raising nearly every hand to crazy amounts before the flop??

Wait, and bide your time. If they're that crazy, you're not going to be able to bluff them out of a pot. Wait for a premium hand, and trap them.

In the meantime, save your chips and let the fools knock themselves out. I know it can be frustrating, but try not to make it a personal issue ("OMG, this guy is an idiot! I so want to take him out!"). Patience is key in poker, and if you bide your time, he will make a mistake. Pounce on it.

If it's tilting you, then you need to take a break.

What works best for me is to sit back and wait for a premium hand and then come over the top of the maniac's raise...

One of three things will usually happen:

(1) He'll fold and you pick up some easy chips. He may also back off a little for fear of being reraised again on a later hand.

(2) He'll call with marginal cards and you get his whole stack.

(3) He'll call with marginal cards and catch on of his outs....or he will actaully have a hand that was better going in and you are done.


I'm like you in that I prefer to build my stack a little at a time, but when you have a maniac you will sometimes need to get your chips in there. When I say premium hands I mean good hands like high pairs and AK.

Keep in mind that everyone else at the table is doing the same thing as you are...waiting for a good hand to knock the maniac out. So if the donk raises and gets a caller/rasier ahead of you that caller/raiser is usually playing a monster and you should lay down everything except AA, KK, or maybe QQ.

This seems to work for me...most of the time. Sometimes you'll get your chips in with the best hand and still get drawn out on, but that's poker.

If you are patient you will notice the the maniac will be out early and then you can play your regular game.


I read somewhere that since the maniac is playing so many hands you can be comfortable calling with more marginal hands than usual against him, but in a tournament you are taking too much of a chance in doing this, imo. I've tried it and it leads to too many uncomfortable post flop situations.

Save your post flop play and your moves for the good opponents. Basic strategy here will allow you to take advantage of the poor play in these types of games.

Do this^^^^^^^^^ and you cant go wrong (except for suckouts).

Conventional wisdom says play opposite the table, which would suggest that you should tighten up and wait for a premium hand, but the first round of a SnG or MTT plays a lot like a cash game.By that I mean you can talke advantage of implied odds while the stacks are still relatively deep.

Take advantge of position and your ability to outplay them post flop.if you feel their splashing around with weak hands, go ahead and adjust your own starting hand requirements accordingly.I an see your reluctance to get involved in big pots early on, but you have to take chances in tournament stuctured hold'em. I'm not suggesting calling all-in with hands as bad as AJ, but with hands like AK, AQ, JJ, your soi far ahead of his range that a call should be manditory.Just be sure you have them pegged correctly.

Thanks heaps guys, you all are very helpful, i have already tried some of your advice and found myself more calm and not letting these idiots get to my head, i do play much better once it is only the decent players left, i guess its that respect they give you (especially since they see im tight).

I have already found i have better results by keeping myself patient and not getting all "OMG WTF" staying calm etc (even when i have to let decent hands like 1010 JJ QQ go because i have no clue if these hands will stack up to what the idiots are holding). I also found that once there is a donk that has knocked the other donks out he will try to protect his inflated stack size and start to play with some (only very little) caution, i can take advantage of this because i keep track of the hands they played early on (and how they played them), and also i feel much more comfortable having the donk as the big stack (as opposed to the advanced player who will use his stack size to push ppl around).

Once again thanks for all the replies, much appreciated

example:

Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2008/04/26 - 03:06:10 (ET)
Seat 1: sculigno52 (5565 in chips)
Seat 2: lil poppet (775 in chips)
Seat 3: best chef (2895 in chips)
Seat 4: bobmcb (1130 in chips)
Seat 5: bruttenews (2345 in chips)
Seat 6: me (1385 in chips)
Seat 7: canto78 (3585 in chips)
Seat 8: Big Readi (3245 in chips)
Seat 9: mcSanguszko (2335 in chips)
bruttenews: posts small blind 25
me: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to me [Ac Ks]
canto78: calls 50
Big Readi: folds
mcSanguszko: calls 50
sculigno52: calls 50
lil poppet: folds
best chef: raises 550 to 600
bobmcb: raises 530 to 1130 and is all-in
bruttenews: folds
me: folds
canto78: folds
mcSanguszko: folds
sculigno52: folds
best chef: calls 530
*** FLOP *** [8c 6h 4c]
*** TURN *** [8c 6h 4c] J♠
*** RIVER *** [8c 6h 4c Js] 4♦
*** SHOW DOWN ***
best chef: shows [3c 2c] (a pair of Fours)
bobmcb: shows [Kc Qc] (a pair of Fours - King kicker)
best chef said, "nh"
bobmcb collected 2485 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2485 | Rake 0
Board [8c 6h 4c Js 4d]
Seat 1: sculigno52 folded before Flop
Seat 2: lil poppet folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: best chef showed [3c 2c] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 4: bobmcb (button) showed [Kc Qc] and won (2485) with a pair of Fours
Seat 5: bruttenews (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: me (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: canto78 folded before Flop
Seat 8: Big Readi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: mcSanguszko folded before Flop

Was this incorrect play not to call here?? I would have raised had it checked to me but these idiots that couldn't spell poker shoved me right out of it.

I had reads on both of them raising-reraising with ATC but i didnt find the fact there was a 3rd person in the showdown too appealing.. sucks to find out i had them both even though the flop was scary (but once again im using the forget my cards technique )

In hindsight i would have been better off seeing as i ended up having such a low M (and quickly diminishing fold equity) i ended up shoving all in with pocket 5's and got called by 7's finished right there.

either play big ball, my new nuke style or just trap big hands