Smart Fold? JJ in hand

Cash game 1/2 blinds
I hold JJ in position w/ a $240 stack
villain raises to $20 preflop w/ a $200 stack
4-way pot

Flop 7 5 Q rainbow
villain bets $35...i'm the only caller

7 5 Q 10
villain bets $100

and I fold... I folded because I figured he had the Q or an overpair and on the river I wasn't willing to go all in...

thoughts?

Prob is fine

Yeah, I don't really suggest a flat call to his raise.. you risk the chance of overpairs hitting the board making it hesitant to call.

raise to what... & then what... & why?
So instead we what? ... with intentions of what?

Should have re-raised it to $80-$90 on the flop to win it right there or given up to a re-re-raise. With at least $80 in the pot, a $35 bet doesn't make sense unless he had a set, aces/kings, bluff, or just a stupid guy who could have anything. Since he made it $20 pre-flop I'll guess he's just stupid. A re-raise or fold would have been the best play on the flop IMO.

Do not do this.

Looks fine, 3bet pre possibly, depends on reads. Does the guy always raise to 10bb?

I agree wuth PF raise

i think he had aq

i think he had kk

I think a fold on the flop or raise. $35 bet in a $80 pot with three people behind looks a little week to me unless he is really strong like pocket qqs. If he had AA or KK he probably would have bet more in a 4-way pot hoping somebody paired their Q. If you raise the flop he wouldn't call with anything less then a pair of Qs and then you can make the easy fold to another bet. When you just call with an under pair you are setting yourself up to get trapped. There is still a 25% chance he hits an A or K if he was barreling with AK. With the bet on the turn I think he probably had 1010, KsorAs, or possibly double barreling AK. Raise or fold would have been best in this situation.

i think he had jj

With 3 callers I am going to have to assume that PF bet was not out of the norm for this guy. So I also assume his range isn't that tight - but usually a bet like that tends to rep TT or better (including AK, AQ). So yeah, making a flat call pretty much says trips or go home if an overcard pops up. Flat out - JJ is very tough. You may have actually had him beat at the turn BUT unless another J comes up, your hand is not going to improve. Which brings me to you calling him while figuring he had a Q or over pair - why would you call the flop if you had him there (or did it not occur to you until the turn)? Not saying your ranging was correct but if that is the range you assigned then trust it.
Myself I would have included TT in that PF range (since I already had JJ) and probably would have also called the flop. The way it went down would have probably convinced me he had TT and I'm folding on the turn also.
But probably the most important aspect of this hand is knowing the villian better. I see guys like this at $1-$2 all the time and if they know you are TAG they are counting on getting you to fold by throwing money around. As the last guy said to me, "I really didn't think you'd call." In my head I thought, "I know, I was counting on that."

3 bet JJ to isolate to to a heads up pot. If he 4 bets and a tight player then fold. If he 4 bets light you might want to see the flop and try to c-bet the flop. If he calls. c-bet the flop. Caution there are some tight players that will not 4 bet their pocket AA . will simply call a 3bet and push on the flop.....so you may want to check -fold or check -raise if you can set mine.
there's 3 ways to play JJ and there's all wrong... it just depends which one you can stomach........folding isnt wrong nor calling....

3 Bet to 70, Jam a ton of flops

profit.

JJ doesnt have much showdown value IMO. So I like to play them agressive preflop or fold

JJ even worse than QQ, so strong pre usually counterfeited post. I think you are good on the flop, only looking at AQ, KQ, JQ, TQ and over pairs so your range on villain is AA to... What? I think a good raise on flop either takes it down or gets called by QX hands, over pair or set, skew pot odds for AK, AJ, KJ, KT,etc drawing hands. Q's are not so scary because QX where X<T aren't really playable. The read on villain is the all important thing here.

potluck, why does that justify betting? By saying that, you are saying that when we are behind we put more money in the pot. When we are ahead we take it down. If anything, it calls for a call and not raise.

Well call shows weakness, so bet should get either raise, fold or call. Raise makes it fold, right? fold is money in pocket, that leaves call which gives free card.

how is raising giving us a freecard and your logic is way off and in reverse.

My suggestion

Search the golden archive for the WA/WB theory IE, way ahead/ way behind

well you are more experienced than me but JJ is strong hand with that flop, Free card means, his hand is weak with pair of Q's or over pair being best. Now if you are Villain with AQ how would you feel getting bet into? what if you are QT, is your hand looking so good now? Your thinking set vs TPTK, so you do what? fold, not likely, raise??? questionable but ballsy, call? got you narrowed to over pair or QX hand, so turn is dead card and QX now feels confident. Bet before turn makes all but over pair, set, and QX hands fold.

No reply marginal? I win, you may kiss my feet now.

Dude, I want you to read that over. I have no idea what you just said. This is not me being sarcastic, I am just not sure what point you are making.

well I'm making ALOT of assumptions here, but:

$1/$2 NLHE online is like $10/$20 brick and morter, assume villain is good and respects klmit's game (lot of assumptions). In micro it's fold, but here where 3rd lvl thinking...Post flop raise makes since to me. He prob called and lost to QX hand but principle stays same. JJ post flop is playable, turn is not helpful.

This is almost certainly a live hand.

3bet preflop against most live players.

Dude I am going to save this thread. In 2 years, when you are beating a reasonable stake, I am going to show you this thread and you will lol at yourself. You just said 3rd level thinking. You really said that in a hand where we have no information.

There are no third-level thinkers playing $1-$2 live. If you find one at your $1-$2 game, just leave the game because you can't beat a tough player and the rake (+bbj, crooked dealers, etc.)

3-betting JJ to $55-$75 pre is totally standard. As played fold flop or fold turn, w/e, he's not bluffing into 3 people and certainly not double-barreling with TT-.

also QT is not folding.

I'd 3bet jacks pre here. As played, I'd be 3betting the flop..not sure why you just "flat" call here in the hope he gives up on the turn/river so you can check it down?

For one, you miss value from A,x/A,10+/K,J+ and worse pocket pairs than you, secondly if you call the flop (not sure why?) with the intention of folding out the turn makes no sense you are just donating money to him or you just "hoping" you hit that special set on the turn?

This is also live poker, players in general are so so bad.

Either 3bet/shove the flop or fold but don't "flat"