Slowplaying Monster Starting Hands

The general rule of thumb is you should raise preflop when you are dealt a monster starting hand (Pocket Aces, Kings, Queens, Jacks, AK). However, lately I've seen players, who I've been playing with for a while, slowplay them. On the one hand, it's frustrating because it's bad play. On the other hand, it's an interesting move because it totally fools the other player(s). My question is this, is there any situation where slowplaying a monster starting hand would be good stragedy?

of course...if you're up against a megalomaniac who plays TPTK like its the holy grail, then let him bet his whole stack into you!
I never slowplay AA or KK to the river though, its just too dangerous even heads up.
but once in a while, it's a VERY good strategy to smooth call AA preflop;
Say you're in the SB with AA and it folds around to the button, who you know to be a constant blind stealer. When he raises you, take your time and smooth call him. Then checkraise the flop, or even check-call then check raise the turn. This may be dangerous, though just as any slowplay is, but is a great way to get extra chips out of someone.
I read a limit article/book (can't remember which) but it says in LHE it's sometimes a good play to limp in LP when it's folded to you to represent a weak drawing hand, then ram'n'jam the flop. Much too dangerous of a play for me, but a good strategy nonetheless.

i think in my experience if u have a monster hand and slow play you get beat badly some of the time and win huge the other times
however raises preflop often weeds out bad hands so i think you will win more hands raising however you will not win as much money

depends on your style of play and how risk tolerant you are

I occasionally SLOWPLAY AA or KK, but VERY VERY rarely. If you limp in with AA and let 5 people limp with you, you're lowering the value of your hand. If you raise, You're pushing those marginal connected hands like 87o and suited cards that could come back and bite you in the ass.

Tiriel, if you are playing with the same general group of folks, like the nightly Titan buy-in for instance, you have to mix things up cause predicitable behavior can cost you money.

I believe it is wise to slow play the monster hands just as I believe you should push all in with then to randomize you play. Of course if you are playing with a bunch of players who won't notice then this goes out the window but if you playing with better players who pick up on the way you play, I believe you need to mix it up a little. I had read, I believe a thread here, that you can let the cards randomize your play. Example with pocket aces is when you receive 2 red aces, slow play. When you get 2 black aces go all in. That way 1 out of 6 times on average you will slow play. 1 out of 6 times you go all in and the other 4 out of 6 times you will play the way you normally do.

yeah mike caro's got a thing with randomizing with respect to your cards' suits.
kind of a cool strategy

Slow playing a monster hand is dangerous, so I have learned! Chuck, I think it was you who pointed it out to me, actually. I had pocket kings that I slow played, which could have been dangerous. I did catch my set on the flop, but I only checked the flop, when I should have substantially raised to scare waway chasers. Chuck pointed out to me if the turn was a Queen, a chaser could have hit their straight, beating my then high pair. If anyone here has seen me play in the FR's, I have become a substantially better player. I have this site, it's members, practice and strategy books to thank. I have learned so much, and I thank this site for it. To be sappy; thanks Nick, for this site, and thank you to every member who has helped me better my gameplay! I very much enjoy this site!

Slow playing top starting pre-flop hands almost spells disaster. Now if you are holding AA's in the SB and everyone folds to you then you should just limp in. Now if you are on the Button with those AA's and 4 others have allready limped in excluding the BB then you are asking for disaster if you limp with them.

I won't say it isn't a bad play when it works. But I have seen it not work alot more times then it has worked.

I rarely slow play them, but then again, I usually don't have to. I generaly raise preflop with any strong starting hand, so high pocket pairs and AK are well conceiled. But I do believe there are times when you MUST slow play the Big Four AA,KK,AK,QQ in order to get value out of them. The situation that comes immediately to mind is if you're the button and the table has folded around to you. You are not getting value out of these hands by stealing the blinds. If you raise, there's to good a chance that the blinds will fold. Well whoop-di-do. You could have done that with 7,2o. I've heard it said that pocket tens are the break even point for getting value out of stealing the blinds. That feels about right to me.

Slowplaying AA = Certain Death. Flushes, straights, & lower trips kill!

Slowplaying KK/QQ = Money saved if an overcard flops and your trips don't. This is where skill comes in.

Simple.

How True, everytime i slow play AA its a disaster for me, instant death, I dont slow play them very much, but when i do i get slaughtered.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.....buck:hello :

here is a hand that was slow played.. why I don't know could be a passive player..

but anyhow this shows the example against me how to slow play and get lucky in hopes of slow playing.

Table: 6832201 (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 1 - GENEJR ($2360 in chips)
Seat 2 - VBMAN ($720 in chips)
Seat 3 - DINIZ59 ($1050 in chips)
Seat 4 - ALIENBALL ($630 in chips)
Seat 5 - YADDOWMAN ($1030 in chips)
Seat 6 - TWIZZYBOP ($990 in chips)
Seat 7 - DREXELJO ($2870 in chips)
Seat 8 - MUNIBOND ($1420 in chips)
Seat 9 - VANILLA ($2430 in chips)
TWIZZYBOP - Posts small blind $15
DREXELJO - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to TWIZZYBOP [7d Qs]
MUNIBOND - Calls $30
VANILLA - Folds
GENEJR - Calls $30
VBMAN - Folds
DINIZ59 - Calls $30
ALIENBALL - Folds
YADDOWMAN - Calls $30
TWIZZYBOP - Calls $15
DREXELJO - Checks
*** FLOP *** [7s 6s Qd]
TWIZZYBOP - Bets $180
DREXELJO - Folds
MUNIBOND - Calls $180
GENEJR - Folds
DINIZ59 - Folds
YADDOWMAN - Folds
*** TURN *** [7s 6s Qd] J♣
TWIZZYBOP - Bets $540
MUNIBOND - Calls $540
*** RIVER *** [7s 6s Qd Jc] 6♦
TWIZZYBOP - All-In $240
MUNIBOND - Calls $240
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TWIZZYBOP - Shows [7d Qs] (Two Pair, queens and sevens)
MUNIBOND - Shows [Ac As] (Two Pair, aces and sixes)
MUNIBOND Collects $2100 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($2100)
Board [7s 6s Qd Jc 6d]
Seat 1: GENEJR Folded on the FLOP
Seat 2: VBMAN Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: DINIZ59 Folded on the FLOP
Seat 4: ALIENBALL Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: YADDOWMAN (dealer) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 6: TWIZZYBOP (small blind) HI:lost with Two Pair, queens and sevens [7d Qs - P:Qs,B:Qd,B:7s,P:7d,B:Jc]
Seat 7: DREXELJO (big blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 8: MUNIBOND won Total ($2100) HI$2100) with Two Pair, aces and sixes [Ac As - P:As,P:Ac,B:6s,B:6d,B:Qd]
Seat 9: VANILLA Folded on the POCKET CARDS

Twizzy, you need to stop making bets that leave you with a tiny, ineffective stack in front for the rest of the hand.

Re: the topic, of course there are situations where it's a smart play depending on the table itself and the table's perception of you. If you've limped from EP with marginal hands before (let's not question the wiseness of this and just say that you have), and if some of the people left to act are very aggressive, it may be smart.

That said I will only limp to mix up my game, and this is the only way I regard it as +EV in the long run. Limp/reraising pretty much defines your hand as a monster, perhaps even more so than 3-betting preflop (and thus you're less likely to get action against decent opponents without them having good implied odds). One thing is for sure, if you do limp with AA/KK, you must be prepared to lay it down when things turn bad (e.g. you limp with AA, flop 7h8h9c, two people get into a raising war).

In most low limit games, people aren't paying any real attention to you though, so I think I'd pretty much always standard raise preflop.

I only see slowplaying strong hands as a decent play short handed in SnG's around the bubble. Although there is a good chance that someone will limp in with a suited connector and make something better. Its all a matter of discipline.

Dorkus I made a little more then a pot bet on the flop and even the turn to make any flush or straight draws wrong to call if they did. I almost will always do that. I want those type of people calling me with incorrect odds to call. So in essence they weren't any tiny bets, correct bets which would have worked against any flush or straight draws. I limped in well cause I hardly limp in with a hand like that what so ever. Nothing almost comes out good for that sort of hand anyway.

But it proves that based apon his position and his hand. AA's VS 4 Others in the hand drops the % of the AA's winning way down in value. Now what would he have done if I had a 6 in my hand or some other person had a 6 and came over the top of the both of us? What if I had flopped a set with the 77's?

If I did flop the set with 77's I still would have bet a pot bet to make sure that indeed to make sure any flush or straight draw chasers would still have to make an incorrect call. I had top 2 pair on the flop.. only thing to beat me there is a set. I wouldn't think anybody would devalue the chance of AA's winning against 4 others in the hand by limping with them especially when they are UTG.

A minumum bet with a monster late in a tourney where the blinds are a decent size has been working absolute wonders for me. Theres almost always one that thinks your on a blind steal and will come over the top with a lesser hand to the point where he is pot committed. At the same time, the minimum bet usually keeps it so you dont get more than 1 or 2 callers.

Slow playing a monster hand preflop is a double edge sword.

On one hand if it holds up, your looking at a great profit return because they will pour out their pockets with top pair.

On the other hand if it doesn't hold up (and there are a lot of times it don't) your going to have to fold to a hand you could've bet out.

The two times I deem slow playing heavy hitters are the obvious two.

1) Heads Up - Pocket Aces heads up, check all the way
2) Aggressive Tables - If they're raising all the time a nice check-raise is always beautiful. If I can slow play into a check raise at any point I will. I'll usually press pretty heavy on the raise though.

Other then that I'll slow play if I'm having a bad day at the tables. Nothing wrong with being cautious with your money

Twizzy,

You miss my point. By not pushing the turn you are leaving T240 behind, and the pot is T~1500. You may be betting 540 on the turn, but you are in actuality committing your entire stack to the pot (are you check-folding to any river card?), which is obviously bad.

So just push. He has incorrect odds to call with a flush/straight draw whether you make your bet or push the extra 240, the only difference if he has a draw is if you push you're getting all your chips in while ahead.

I gotcha now dorkus. Commit that many chips out of my stack.. might as well commit the rest.

In my experience (which is somewhat limited but I will go on anyway) the best time to slowplay AA or something like that is from EP when you have a loose/maniac to your left preferably a few players to the left so you can trap a couple players. Let him raise it for you and then hit him with the re-raise. Otherwise probably best to make a bet. I always bet in the same range no matter what I have so I don't have to worry much about giving away my hands. Pretty much always 2-3XBB from EP to MP and 3-4xBB in LP. With a few limps thrown in for fun. I am trying to ween myself off of limping but at the moment I feel better limping with 77 if I think I can get away with it.