sit and go poker strategy...

ok, i've been playing low limit sit and go tournaments on party poker for alil over 2 years now and have my my fair share of money.

and i have to say, the "sit and go strategy" by Chris Moneymaker has to be the best system i have ever seen.

it incorperates every aspect of the game from the start of the game till there is only u and another left fighting for first and second place.

i saw this at http://pokervan.com/sng.htm .... a fairley new site (not all that great)

well jsut want to let you guys know about this strategy and u should try it out for urself.

if you choose to try this system.... REPLY WITH RESULTS PLEASE!!!

Thats not a bad guideline there. But there are a few issues, depending on the type of sit and go you are in. If it's a 10ppl sitngo then Chris has a sound strategy for the first few rounds. However, if you're playing at a 6 person SitnGo, you have to be WAY more agressive than that if you don't want to be taking huge chances later in the tourny, which is usually bubble play.

I personally don't like his bubble play advice, but bubble play is always debteable. He suggests to get agressive, that's fine if the blinds are in the correct ratio to the stacks. Frequently you run into situations where the blinds are 1/3 or more of the overall stack of the player and he's likely to call you with almost any hand. This is always dangerous because it's almost coin flipping from there. I prefer to tighten up a little and pick my spots of when to try to steal.

well have been using this strategy for a couple of months now and i win about 50% of my games, i think that this system is flawless and the only reasons i lose are because of bad beats.

i do agree that you have to be more aggressive in 6 ppl tournys, however by being aggressive you increase you chances of having a badbeat and also gettin caught( i.e. bluffs)

but for the most part the Moneymaker system works fine. And you can apply it not just to online poker, but the real thing as well.

and thats why he';s the 2004 world champion rite?????

Hi all,
Yes this strategy guide is much like many other strategy guides, it can come in useful just like any other guide. If the strategy was flawless you'd win much more than 50% of the time. There just isn't a poker strategy that's flawless.
In an ideal poker world you might be able to use the same strategy every time if you was playing the same 10 or 6 players every time. Trouble is sit-n-go's can vary so much you have to change your strategy nearly every time you play.
If you had 4 or 5 of the players playing exactly the same strategy it wouldn't work, you have to change according to the table and players on that table.
I play sit-n-go's virtually every day for about 6hrs and i've never stuck to just one strategy over the course of say 4 games or more.
You have to be prepared to change your play from game to game depending on the different players you meet. It also throws people for a loop if you can change your play drastically during the game.
Also with so many new players coming in, many college students and young kids even, some that are playing illegally as well even, you will nearly always get a call whatever you have,in the lower limit sit-n-gos anyway, i've seen pocket AA's taken down so many times I never go all-in pre-flop with them on a sit-n-go early on.
My advice would always be to use aspects of several strategies to find what works for you, if you can't come in the money at sit-n-go's at least 3 out of every 4 games your doing something wrong.
I've just moved up to $20 and $30 sit-n-gos with 5 or 6 people and it's great, much better players and a much better game too.
Just yesterday I played 4 $30 sit-n-gos at pacific and came 1st 3 times for $90 each time and once at 2nd for around $50.
You need to find what works best for you and if someone else's strategy works great then use it but read several and try them all, you'll be surprised what you can do with the knowledge of 6 or 7 different strategies as opposed to just one.
OK i'm done, probably haven't been much help. Good luck all

Tony ( The Webmaster )

Atta boy Tony!!

Here's my scenario, I'm a cash player (being that I make all my poker money on the ring games) , but i just fall in love with the sit n' go's, but not because they're profitable to me, infact they take the majority of my winnings from the ring games. Now I've played in dollar heads up, to two table $20, and 5/6 30$ , and I can't seem to win, my ratio is probably 1 in 5.

Now I know I should just stay away, but I love them, and keep thinking that I can step climb, from one sit n' go to another with the proper play. But my play keeps getting beating by either bad beats or poor players...

What is YOUR biggest concern when player your sitn' go's tony?.., I know you stated that you do not use one certain strategy, but whats your biggest/strongest advice you can give to a wanna be Sitn' go PROOOO!!!


Alright, thanks!!

PattyG!

Patty, I know what u mean... my win ratio was about 1 in 4 before i found out about the Chris Moneymaker strategy.....

now I win about 1 in 2 games

i can guarentee u.... if you use this system and follow it carefully... u will see results/....

use it for a couple of sessions then REPLY with results, u wont be disapointed...

Hi all,
Wow, my biggest concern is that I don't get knocked out in 6th place, lol.
Strongest advice in sit-n-go's? That's a hard one, first I would say don't enter a SNG unless you can afford at least 3 of them, so if you have say $10 bankroll then you should start at a $1 or $2 SNG, don't let yourself go on tilt, ever, biggest mistakes are made when you go on tilt, I can wear a big loss and not let it effect me too much, and on the odd occasion i'm knocked out without a place i forget about it, take a break, have a look at some other SNG's then i'm back in. Don't dwell on any bad beats, shrug them off and get on with the game, i've been down to as low as 70 chips and came back to win a SNG, if i'd have thought about the big loss i'd have probably thrown my 70 chips on the next hand no matter what, but I waited for a pocket pair and doubled up and so on.
If your starting to play SNG's and losing there is something wrong, big time, best way to start out as there are only 6 players is to fold, a lot, try and see the flop only when you have 2 cards with are worth seeing the flop for, you don't want to go past the flop unless you've improved your hand, don't be calling big raises to try and catch a flush or a straight on the turn or river, most times you won't make it.
Usually at least once or twice in a game you can flop a really good hand, these are where you can make a lot of chips if your careful, let's just say you've flopped a full-house, don't go all-in as everyone will fold and you'll steal at best the blinds. Put in a low bet or even check in the hope that one or two will pick up a pair or even two pair, more often than not if I know I have the best hand on the table (the nuts) i'll call or check all the way to the river, then, all-in. You make a lot more chips that way.
Sometimes i've had to wait 20 or even 30 hands before hitting a winning hand, SNG's need a little patience and usually while your waiting for that good hand 2 or 3 will get knocked out.
This is not a sure fire strategy and there are lots more things to say about SNG's, too much to put in one post.
I just finished a $30 SNG before coming here this morning and it was down to just two of us, I was dealt pocket kings (KK) the other guy went all-in so I called, he had pocket eights (88) flop saw K45 i'm looking good, turn 6, still think i'm ok, river 7, unreal, gave him the straight against my 3 of a kind. That's poker, I got $45 he got $75, I don't get upset because I lost $30, I look on the positive side that I made $15 profit (less the fee)
Another thing is these SNG's only last around 45 minutes so you can make money much quicker than a multi-table.
Hope some of this helps, i've just tried to mention what I think is the most important things to someone starting SNG's, like I said there is much more to tell and each poker room is different, I love Noble but you have to wait too long sometimes for the table to fill up even with SNG's so I play both Noble and pacific, the SNG's at pacific are great, you can enter ones with only 5 people and they pay 3 spots, a great place for someone who's starting SNG's you only have to knock 2 people out to come in the money.
Well good luck at the tables

Tony ( The Webmaster )
P.S. Be sure to read as many strategies as you can on multi-table and sit-n-go tournaments, they really do help someone who is starting out.

ill have to give it a try.i normally win a few sit and go's then not one in ages.why i stopped playing them

Tony, got a question for you. You said above that you never go all in pre-flop. I'll play a $10 sit and go from time to time and it seems that the majority of the pre-flop bids are all-ins, usualy not by just one or two players but a majority of the players at the table. I have a strong dislike for pre-flop all-ins as well and have folded some fairly strong pockets that I would have liked to seen a flop for. As an example, your at a table where pre-flop all-ins are common. You have suited King 10, or even pocket 10's, two people go all in before you, the three of you have basicaly the same amount of chips. Do you risk going all in and one of the two catching an over card? I usualy assume if someone has an average amount of chips and is going all in they are representing an Ace or high suited connectors.

King 10? poket 10's and going all in?

Are you crazy man? Not for nothin man but I wanna play against you at a sit n go.

Unless you have AA, KK or AK, going all in preflop with 2 people allready putting large amounts of chips in IS SUICIDE.

The only ligitimate reason for taking such a chance is if you are seriously low on chips.

Hi 10ured,
To say I never go all-in pre-flop is slightly misleading, I will call an all-in pre-flop occasionally but won't go all-in pre-flop myself is more accurate.
It varies on the table your playing, I get a lot less all-in pre-flops on $20 and $30 SNG's than on $5 and $10 ones. You get a much more "sensible" game probably due to the fact it's more money and the players at least want some play time and don't want to take too many risks.
I see a lot more when i'm playing $5 and $10 SNG's though and i'm not really sure why that is. With so many new players constantly entering the SNG's it's getting much harder to assume what they have, especially early on in the game. The scenario you mention at one time you could have guessed almost exactly what the other two players had because of the amount bet, the chip stack etc..but now? I've seen players go all-in pre-flop with 2 and 3 offsuit, pure stupidity really and when so much money is at stake I wonder why they are even playing.
I fold a lot early on in the game more to find out what the other players are like, not becuase I have bad cards, once the blind has gone around the table at least once then I will call more flops while it's still cheap to see if I can hit the "monster" flop. 10 to 15 minutes into the game with only 5 or 6 players you can usually tell what player is the "bluffer" which one is the "aggressive" and so on.
The scenario you mention? I would fold early on in the game, but if the same scenario presented itself late in the game then it might be worth the risk as you know how the other two have been playing.
A lot of my wins come from how the other players have been playing and not just good cards, there are some SNG's where I just can't get anything, or I just had one good hand which has kept me in the game, it's also a good thing ( or a bad thing depending on your point of view ) to show your cards when you have everyone beat, if you do this several times then later in the game you can do one big bluff and get away with it as everyone thinks "forget it, he's got another good hand".
Last point : If your going to risk calling a pre-flop all-in that could be more than a little risky at least make sure that your either in the money or you can at least leave yourself some chips if you lose.
Don't know if this has been any help, let me know as I do go on a bit sometimes ( well most of the time,lol )

Tony ( The Webmaster )

Hi all,
Remember I said I have hovered over the $50 SNG but never managed to hit the register button? Well I took the plunge today and boy what a difference they are. I think these players are way too serious and some can't afford to lose as I was called every name under the sun at one table, this guy was betting heavy from the start, he bet about 180 I think it was, I put him on a pocket pair straight away and I was right, I had a K8 diamonds and I have no real reason for me initially playing that other than the K's and plenty of diamonds had been showing, anyway we see the flop and 2 diamonds show giving me 4 diamonds, all low cards, nothing special but i've already decided to see the turn and flop, this guy bets 200 so I call, a club, low one, he bets another 200 and I call again and the river gives another diamond giving me a K flush, he bets 200 and I go all-in, he says wtf and calls me, he has a pair of Jacks. Man I was a sob, a f..... B....... and much more. I said, that's the way poker goes sometimes, he says "poker?" you wanna learn to play man, followed by another load of unpronouncable words. Anyway I came 2nd for $90, the winner got $200, nice profit if you can get it but definitely sucks if you can't get at least 2nd place, and if you win you gotta put up with all the name calling.
I think i'm going to stick with the $20 and $30 SNG's though for now, probably do a $50 once a week or something.
Makes me glad i'm playing online sometimes, I think if we had been in a real poker room this guy might have shot me,lol. For $50?
Anyway for those who will be there, see you at UB tomorrow, don't forget to say HI, good luck all

Tony ( The Webmaster )

well done tony

read heads up moron nice easy profit for lil ole me

Moneymaker gave decent advice, but I have to point something out. He says play tight, but go all-in if you have a big hand like KK before the flop. If you are playing tight, then no one in their right mind would call without aces.

Hopefully you reported him. I have had that happen (name calling and such) on free sng as well as free tournements. I always report the people-simply because they ruin the fun for everyone. otherwise I just mute their chat by right clicking on their name. Best way to shut them up. Anyhow, if you report the players name and when/where it happened, they research and if it is a valid complaint, their chatting privlidges will be revoked. And it's anonymous-like they can come after us anyway....This is all assuming that you play on Ultimatebet.com

sit and goes are easy... play tight at beginging and play lose later when you have chips to gamble with

its not that easy... ill let others elaborate ( me sleep rite now)

Yeah not quite that simple. Best to stay out of trouble till the blinds are actually worth it although the easiest way to win is get on a rush early and bully your way to the end. I actually tried what moneymaker said several times and got my azz handed to me! Maybe just bad luck but it still happened. So got back to playin my old style and I am doing fine.

Thanks for the tip about that strategy. I usually do pretty well in sng but every bit of advice helps.

i dont have any new stratgedy ,i play tight early then loosen up later when the blinds increase and try to steal a few here and there...

Hi all,
Seems the appropriate place to post this one as we have been talking about strategies in the SNG's etc...This may or may not be of interest to you but if nothing else it may give some inspiration as to what can be done as far as poker playing goes. I have been making some decent money recently on a regular basis on the SNG's so today I decided to start a day by day log of how I do, like a diary I suppose. I wanted to post my first day's log here so you can have a look and make comments if you wish. Looking through the list of SNG's I played today you should take note that in a few of them I came nowhere at all, a good point to make here is not to become annoyed when you have a couple of losses, learn from the mistakes and don't go straight into another tourney if your still upset from a bad beat. Anyway here's my first days play :

Sunday's SNG tournament play
NOBLE.
Buy-in Placed Amount Won Profit
1/ $10.50 1st 42.00 31.50
2/ $ 5.25 0 0 0
3/ $21.00 0 0 0
4/ $10.50 0 0 0
5/ $21.00 1st 84.00 63.00

PACIFIC
1/ $11.00 3rd 10.00 0
2/ $33.00 3rd 30.00 0
3/ $33.00 1st 75.00 42.00
4/ $33.00 1st 75.00 42.00
5/ $33.00 3rd 30.00 0
6/ $33.00 2nd 45.00 12.00
7/ $33.00 1st 75.00 42.00

This is a below average day for me but it's the first day that I decided to record my play, as you can see even though I didn't come placed in 3 and didn't make a profit in another 3 I still made well over $100 profit, most days I have more second places than first and I don't usually have so many where I haven't made it in the money.
Not sure what the statistical players out there would make of this but I believe this is a good idea to keep track of how your doing in daily tourneys, maybe over time you can even see if your improving or not.
If anyone else decides to record their daily play post your first day here, it would be good to see how others are doing.

Worse SNG of the day : $5 buy-in 25c fee, one guy had gone all-in pre-flop 3 times in a row, I was dealt pocket kings (KK) and he went all-in pre-flop for the 4th time so I called, he had...wait for it....Q3 offsuit, flop comes with QQ2 turn shows A and river another 2 giving him a nice fullhouse against my meagre KK, game over for me
Good luck all

Tony ( The Webmaster )

tony,

nice - enjoyable story.

very satisfying to take him.

i like waiting in the bushes and

finally getting these guys. unless

someone beats me to the punch.

i´ve had to turn off the chat when i play.

just too distracting....all the verbage.

better to do it now when not playing.

and in reality....i´m too easily intimidated.

however, now with the chat off....i rarly

get intimidated....just be op. play.

best,
donvic

007

you know, yur right.

this has worked for me.

only problem....too few rushes.

donvic

tony,

yes, however the call was right on.

you have a great idea....to really learn

about your playing habits.

when and where playing well...poor.

what time of day?? where?? what sites??

what tables??

nice,

donvic

Hi all,
Thankyou for all your replies and comments, donvic you mention about where and what time of day etc.. It seems that I do a lot better as the day goes on, I don't know if this is because i'm playing against poorer players later in the day or if it's because i'm more settled into my game and playing much better with each game I play.
I'm thinking it's probably a little of both, in the evening people who are at work during the day are probably playing more for the enjoyment than the actual making money whereas the players during the day are probably the more experienced players who are playing for the money and not so much for the fun of it.
I'd like to think my game actually improves with every game I play but that could just be wishful thinking, no i'm sure my game does improve, i'm learning all the time and while your learning you must be improving.
I've since found out many more ways to make extra chips on various good hands, an example is this hand I played yesterday in one of the $30.00 SNG's :
I was dealt A9 clubs and the flop came out Ad Qc 3c at least one person had an ace and another must have had a Q as they in turn bet and called about 300 chips each, I called with them and the turn came out 7c giving me the high flush, being 3 clubs on the table the other two players lowered their bets, I just called, the turn comes out 4c, now there is 4 clubs on the table which in turn gives the other two players the possibility of the flush if they are holding a club, fortunately for me both players had a club in their hand and called my all-in, great win, took two out in one go and went on to win the game.
A similar hand I play is when i've got two suited cards and another two flop putting me on the flush draw, if someone is betting heavy i'll call the turn and if I hit the flush on the turn I don't re-raise, I just call or check, I don't go all-in until the river, this way you know you've got an unbeatable hand and you've also given other players the chance to make a hand worth betting on and they'll call giving you more chips than if you were to go all-in as soon as you hit the flush or full house or whatever.
Well i'm off again, good luck

Tony ( The Webmaster )

i don't agree with all the advice on what cards to play. you have to play cards according to what type of people are in ur SnG. for example, when playing with tight people i think it is more appropriate to play hands like suited conenctors and in a lot of cases call small raises with them

sit and gos are defiantly my downfall. they are so fun to play in yet i always seem to not be patient enogh. for some reason i just have to get all my chips in and thats when it hits, one spot out of the money.

ive bin playing online for a while now and what ive found is that everyone has their different strategies for sitngos and dependingn on how you use them they all seem to work....i have friends who i watch online and they all play different styles of poker but they all seem to win so my advice would be to play your game that you like to play and if you know what your doing you should be fine...

i believe the best sit and go strategy is to play tight and try to maximize your big hands.

good article man i have the same strat.

hi, ive been having trouble with sngos usually going out on the bubble.everyone gets so aggresive when its down to 4 i usually get a low stack waiting for a really good hand. i will start using this strategy hopefully it will help, thanks for posting it!

western,

yea, sometimes it does not matter what
plan you play with; just that you have
a plan.
best,
donvci

Since I was asked to reply with results:

PokerStars, $6 (+$0.5), 9 player SNGs.
Place:
4
4
9
8
5
4
4
5
5
6
6
8

This strat isn't working for me, although I'm not sure why. I did suffer some seriously bad beats, but in general, I felt a lot of the times that I gave up good hands (AQs, etc) which could have made me money, and dumped tons of chips into having my QQ/KK beaten by a A-10-2 flop.

Or is a string of losses this long expected, and I should really just suck it up and keep at it?

Cheers,
-F

EDIT: "This" strat is the Chris Moneymaker one, linked at the top.

The Stars $6.50s are turbos if I remember rightly? You can't afford to be overly tight early on in these - with the blinds increasing so rapidly if you don't catch anything big you're just gonna get blinded out. I guess what's happening to you in most cases is you're not getting any premiums and you end up watching your stack slowly whittled away at until it gets ineffective and you have to make a move. What am I basing this on? The high number of 4ths/5ths. Anyway, #1 in that link doesn't really apply to turbos imo - play more drawing hands for cheap in late position if the table is loose, and focus on stealing blinds if the table is tight.

Also note that 12 SnGs is a really, really small sample size. It's possible you're just running bad I know I've had 12 out of money finishes in a row before, and I'm sure I've had close to 12 consecutive in the money finishes. That's luck and variance for you, (un)fortunately.

Yeah, I realize that 12 is a really small sample. True, these are turbos (I believe there are two regular 9-player SNGs among these), so perhaps I do need to be a bit more loose earlier on.

And, god, the 4 and 5s placements. I really wanted to safe it out to get in the money, but I decided to play more aggressively (for the win) to try it out. These consecutive losses took a decent bite in my bankroll. I'm usually in the money about 30% of the time (and win about 10% of the time), so maybe the way I play works as it does.

Anyway, maybe I'll take a few of the hands to the hand analysis forum and let you guys dig into me.

Something I did pick up from Moneymaker's strategy, though, is to not chicken out on post-flop raises and give opponents good pot odds on draws. That's something I need to work on. My other big weakness is getting enough money out of my winning hands, but that's a separate issue.

Btw, I'm new here - as you may have noticed. I've learned a lot from this site from the week that I've been here: Most importantly, that there's always more to learn.

Cheers,
-F

Okay, I looked through the big hands of these 12 tables, and invariably, I've overplayed a "weak" hand (KJo, A7s) or I've gone all-in with a mid pair (77, 99) and gotten beaten by QQ and TT.

Lesson learned: Don't overplay cards like KJ or Ax, and don't try to steal the pot with medium pairs unless I have the chips to afford getting called (keep in mind that these are all with 5-7 players at the table).

How's that?