Shoving 100 BB With AK

Standard 4x raise in a 6 handed cash game. I 3x it with QQ. He then shoves over the top for about 100 BB with AK. I think and call, as i've seen players at this level do it with much less (e.g QK a few hands later) and I won the flip.
I know my call maybe suspect but most of the time i'm going to be good.

what I want to know is your opinion of his move. I can't see any value in it. He could easily have called to see a flop relatively cheap and thrown it away. Maybe he was scared of getting pushed by AQ/AJ as I had position, though at this level he might not have been thinking of that.

I personally wouldn't do it with any hand as there isn't much value. If you call you're beat, if they have anything less than QQ they probably fold and you lose value.

On another note, good/bad call?

what level are you playing micro-stakes? at the very low limits Im not surprised at the majority of players who would shove 100BB with AK. if the table is agressive with marginal - semi-marginal hands then I would take a shove with QQ

Yeah the scummy micro's, I wonder how you figured

Well it isn't a good play...but it can be effective. I know at 50NL if a player 4-bets all-in that signifies that he has KK or AA about 90% of the time. The best you can hope for is either a fold or QQ, because you will not get JJ, AQ, or anything worse to call you. Soooooo yeah, over-shoving all-in with AK is normally going to just get you in trouble.

I'm happy to 4bet AK at 6max in most cases. I will raise 2-2.5x the 3bet rather than shove as this is the size i use for 4bet bluffs and AA/KK.

Of course it is player and position dependant:
If I have raised from the button and a light 3better 3bet from the BB AK it would be criminal not to 4bet and I intend on calling a shove 100% of the time.

If I'm UTG and I get 3bet by a nitty UTG+1 their range is alot tighter so I'm going to call or perhaps even fold depending on the extent of their nitness.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 60.406% 40.08% 20.33% 230565960 116968584.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 39.594% 19.26% 20.33% 110831016 116968584.00 { AKs, AKo }


But your 3-betting range is probably bigger. Do you not 3-bet hands like AQ/AJ/JJ/TT/some air? Essentially AK is a semi-bluff, because it gets a lot of folds and when it gets all-in is not even that far behind (only 60-40 from this).

I've seen this so many times. 80% of the time the preflop all in means AK/AQ/AJ/A10/ or middle pp.I usually call them with pp.

Sounds like you're talking about tournaments where those are standard shoving hands when shortish not a 100bb deep cash games...and you don't fare well against that range if you mean you'll call with low pockets (unless there's enough dead money)

Back on topic, cash games...guess it would depend on your calling range and how often you fold to the shove, but 100bb over 3bb doesn't sound like good move...however, as its micros that guy will be looked up by worse aces and even random 2 cards sometimes.

[quote=D'wilius;1179816]Sounds like you're talking about tournaments where those are standard shoving hands when shortish not a 100bb deep cash games...and you don't fare well against that range if you mean you'll call with low pockets (unless there's enough dead money)


You're right.I was talking about tournaments.Didn't payed attention to the topic(sorry about that).Anyway what exactly does it makes it different in this actual case?Usually happens the same way in the tournaments.Somebody makes a standard 4bb raise get reraised and the guy goes all in.

Early on, calling them is very -EV if you play like this. If you'll call with something like 88, they could have JJ, 10 10, AK, AQ, which means you are flipping with a small portion of their range, and are far behind vs most of their range. People that play shove-pre / 3/4-bet shove feed off players with this mindset. I used to play like that in micro MTT's and made hundreds of dollars like that. Later on when you move up in stakes to stuff like 150 + 13, that doesn't work because people can FOLD their smaller pairs.

Simply the depth of stacks. Unless its the beginning of a deepstack tournament you're usually going to be playing with a shorter stack or against shorter stacks, alot of 20-50bbs deep situations. Generally, the deeper you are the better the hand you want to have to get allin preflop.

In cash games you'll see people who simply won't get allin without QQ+ AK, or even KK/AA, while in tournaments you need to accumulate chips before the blinds go up or you'll be even shorter. When you get much below 20bbs pushing those AT+, middle pair hands may be the right move.

Well, as you see it depends on the limit.
Many times you get in trouble with such a move and just AK....
But sometimes it could work.
So it also depends on the table and how the other players played before.

Got it.Makes sense too.Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Tough call i def woulda laid dwn but im quite risk averse and never try to put my whole 100bb stack in the middle pre with anything less than KK. Ak mmm powerhouse preflop maybe only in extreme trouble against AA. 30% dog against KK and flipping with every other pair from Qs dwn so u can beat or flip with a chit load of hands i guess it really comes back to the player if he was a real maniac obv calling will show +ev in that spot but if it was the first hand that the dude's played in like 5 rounds prob an easy laydwn in my view.
On a different note some info on the limit u were playing would have shone a little more light on the proclivities of the players at that level if it was 1c/ 2c easy call $25/$50 mmm. im assuming from ur comments in your post the level is a lil closer to 1c/ 2c than $25/50. i def appreciate that it is atough laydwn or call either way i guess again it comes back to knowing gthe tendecies of the player in question Gl at the tables chippy

Actually if you're folding AK preflop at the typical online $25/$50 game in all but the most extreme cases (ie UTG raises, UTG+1 3-bets, CO cold 4-bets and button 5-bet shoves. If you have AK in the blinds you can probably fold) you are doing something wrong.