Should you call rather than raise with ACES?

what is the percentage of the time that it's better to just call rather than raise with pocket aces, due to the probabality that the flop will hit low?

probability that you should call rather than raise with aces = 0%

It probably depends on who you're playing with...are they savvy enough to follow your betting patterns? What other hands are you limping with? What position are you in at the table? But still, don't limp with em

Gotta disagree with this Bryan.. This is not a true statement. Sometimes u got a aggro donk at ur table who if he makes big raise preflop maybe i might wanna just call and gamble he doesnt hit monster on the flop.. If he doesnt and I can check to him hes more than likely gonna ship it in here and I have him set up for busto..Just my opinion though... We all have different perspectives

personally i would never flat call pre flop with AA

never ever, just asking for trouble

lol no bud..sorry but it is a true statement....if you got an aggro donk...than shove on his donkass...hell pay u off...dont limp ....EVER...IMO...which i think is right

Gotta agree here, If you do a standard raise the aggro donk will prob call or come up and over.
I would only call on an extremely nitty table that has showed it will fold to any pf raise.

With AA, I raised, then only called post flop to increase the chippies & then re-raised. It depends on who I'm playing at the time & on which site too. On Ultimatebet, if I try to shove early on, I only win the blinds. On PS, I can usually get much more...that is, if I'm not beat by two pair or trips.

I was wrong folks.. Thanks to Trigga for making it clear...

He!! no, raise with them.. Look in Trigs SnG video, i played a hand the same way, even before i saw Trigs AA hand.. I had the same thoughts, that he could not have one of the 6s that where on the board, i got what i wanted, for the lager stack to re-raise me, and put me all-in..
If you got a short-stack you can only shove.

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

Hero (MP3): $27.75 (111 bb)
CO: $33.85 (135.4 bb)
BTN: $8.50 (34 bb)
SB: $5 (20 bb)
BB: $26.85 (107.4 bb)
MP1: $22.15 (88.6 bb)
MP2: $25 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP3 with Q K
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, CO folds, BTN calls $0.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.85) T 9 A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($1.85) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($1.85) J (2 players)
Hero bets $2, BTN raises to $4, Hero raises to $11.25, BTN calls $3.75 and is all-in

Results: $17.35 pot ($0.85 rake)
Hero showed Q K (a straight, Ten to Ace) and won $16.50 ($8 net)
BTN mucked A A (three of a kind, Aces) and lost (-$8.50 net)


lol this is why you dont slow play aces

Lol perfect example!

^I think they think they are trapping..... jokes on them alot of the times.

I think, its good to raise 4x preflop with aces, if no one raised before you...
If someone has raised even 2x before you, i would suggest you to just call it and watch the flop...
Take a peek on one of my threads named "Limping with pocket".There are some real good advices there...

I could be wrong, but if someone raises 2x bb, to me the min raise means absolutely nothing, you need to bump it up. I do not respect anyone's min raise nor do I min raise- Thanks to Chiefer he taught me that!( after stomping all over mine)

^ no your not wrong here poof...a min raise to 2xBB doesn mean anything....i had my KK cracked today because it was late in a tourney and somebody raised it 2xBB...i flat called to see a flop...J 7 8....i bet pot he shoves..i insta call...he shows 9 10 for the str8..

point of that short story is in the later of stages of a tourney ppl will raise with anything especially to steal blinds...so had i re popped it to like 10BBs he probably wouldnt have called...

Your table image is very important. If you have been limping a lot you can limp with AA in EP and hope someone else raises. If they raise you can reraise and maybe get them to go all in or at least take down a nice pot. If no one raises and you go to a multiway pot, play AA like any other 1 pair hand. Overpairs are usually strong hands but against 3+ opponents it is very likely that someone has a good draw, a set, or 2 pair and your AA is not nearly as big as it seems.

If you've been raising a lot of pots just raise with AA because other players won't be able to tell if you have AA or 78o.

I don't know about the rest of you but I have been at tables where even if I raise 6xbb UTG I still get 4 or more callers. In a situation like that I just limp AA hoping to reraise someone and if not I usually fold if I don't hit a set and meet resistance postflop.

If I re-rasie with AA and someone three bets me you can be sure I am shoving here.

No way I am calling a raise in front of me pre flop with AA

Now after the flop comes KKx I might be ready to get on out of there if there is a bet form the original raiser.

^..even if the flop came KKx....chances are im not folding lol...just me personally though

Full Tilt, $0.02/$0.05 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

Pre-Flop: Hero is BB with 4 2
5 folds, CO calls $0.05, BTN folds, SB completes, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.15) 2 6 2 (3 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, CO raises to $0.30, SB folds, Hero raises to $1.18 and is all-in, CO calls $0.88

Turn: ($2.61) J (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($2.61) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:
Hero showed 4h 2d (three of a kind, Twos) and won $2.44 ($1.21 net)
CO showed As Ah (two pairs, Aces and Twos) and lost (-$1.23 net)

Well i hate limping with Aces as it is only asking for trouble. But sometimes When i am short and desperate to double up and I am getting no action to my raises i will try to be sneaky but this is a rarity.

Question to op: are you referring to a straight limp in with aces or if a raise is in front of you?

i dont think i would ever just limp with aces when first to enter a pot, it allows to many hands in cheaply... i would probably raise with them when out of position, say in the sb.

however if you are a good player and have a good read of the players at your table then calling a preflop raise with ace while is position has merit. i would generally use this against players that know me quite well it adds a layer of deception to your game. generally i would say come in for a raise, you want to make the raise size the same as you would if you were 3bet bluffing them, a min raise may look suspicious if you have been raising 3x the initial raiser

As hard as it is, if you limp AA, you need to be prepared to muck it if you get into a multi-way pot. I don't limp AA often, but, if i believe someone is going to raise behind me and I can re-raise them, then I'll limp.

I would probably smooth call with aces if the original raiser is very tight and no one else is likely to be in the pot. I think if you re-raise a really tight player, you may get a fold (depends on your table image). Chances are they have something like KQ, JJ, QQ, maybe AK....if they hit top pair on the flop, you will make a lot more, if they don't hit you'll get the same fold anyway.

Really, for me, aces are a great weapon used for one-on-one. So, basically, the strategy, in my perspective is this: Given the the dynamics of the table and your image, whatever you feel is the correct move to isolate a another player pre-flop (and get stacks in ASAP), well, that is the correct move.

When someone behinds you raise and then another behinds you reraise that is your chance to push all in because that way the 1st person that raised might rethink calling that all in hand because they know that you will have a monster. You don't want to many hands involved when you are all in with pocket aces because thats just straight asking for trouble

I disagree... 'it depends'.
First off.... I assumed you were referring to 'just calling a preflop raise... instead of putting in a raise w AA'. This is the question I was preparing to answer with some decent examples. But now I'm thinking you're referring to limping in preflop w AA instead of raising.
Please specify so I can adjust my answer accordingly.
incidentally..... late stages in the money in Fulltilt's $1K Monday this week, AJKHoosier1 chose to just 'flatcall' w AA to an EP raise (EP had A7s). He flopped Top Set (AAA), led out close to POT and was reraised ALLIN.. so in his case 'calling was perfect'. Hero had a stack size where he was hoping to get all of the money into the pot and probably figured he might not be able to do so by 3-betting (and because his stack size was an awkward size... ie. the 3-bet would obviously pot committ him anyways... so shoving would've been more likely/reasonable... hence the flat call & trying to trap villain on the flop).
Bad news was... villain rivered flush ftw, lol.

Well said sir!

To OP... you'll often see players who like to limp AA KK (& AK) in EP, especially in early levels, in hopes of getting re-raised and then 4-betting big. Personally I think aside from this being super transparent and easy for villain to get away from, it is used more by freerollers & micro buyin players.
As far as 'how often' would I raise vs limp.... umm.. probably around 99% of the time I'm raising.

you can disagree all you want to, other ppl back me up on this. some ppl can flat call all they want..its not for me

with aces im often happy to take the blinds/antes...im never playing a multiway pot...im going in against ONE player with a nice raise/reraise...make them pay me off...suckouts will happen..but not as often this way

Always raise.

There are rare situations where calling will be better but that is a lot less than 1% of the time and in all of the above examples of situations where calling should be better than raising, I'm raising.

This results in your hand becoming very obvious but fortunately for us the majority of opponents are idiots who are just looking to hang themselves. Idiots will pay you off with JJ-KK, good players will pay you off with KK and you'll rake in a lot of pre-flop bets and raises that people give up without a fight. A lot of people will also try to crack your aces, make sure you give them bad implied odds to try it and let them increase your hands value.

Whatever you do, don't try to get fancy and ruin all of that by just calling and letting yourself get outdrawn. You're ahead pre-flop and a lot of weaker hands will call your raises, so raise now while you know you're ahead, not on the flop when you're guessing.

There are times when I consider just calling a raise. The other week I was playing against a guy who has a very good idea of how I play, in particular he knows that when I keep raising the pot it means big pockets and nothing less. He also knows that if I just called that I'd have less than that. I figure it's a raised pot where everyone else has folded. If I raise now he folds most of the time but if I just call he will put me on AK most likely and may be prepared to take me on post-flop with any pair (provided an A or K doesn't hit) and will probably put his entire stack behind the assumption that I don't have a made hand. I just called, flop showed an A and he ran away when I bet.
This is about the only time where I think there is value in just calling with rockets, against a skilled player it provides a lot of deception. Deception which should be used very sparingly, in the above example if I were against a weaker player who might call an all in from me there with something as low as JJ I should have just shoved pre-flop rather than gamble that overcards to his jacks don't hit on the flop.
Most of the time if I have even one weak player behind me, I'll throw out a raise which almost gaurantees a fold from the strong player(s) but I'm hoping for action from the weak one.

In addition to all of that, playing aces so predictably allows you to play your other big pockets the same way, providing them with a bit of protection and if an opponent realises that you might play jacks (in certain situations) as fast as you would aces then you might start getting them to play back at you with AK, AQ when you have aces.

I heavy raise preflop with AA just for the plain old reason that I've been sucked out on them wayyyyy too many times. I know that i'm probably losing money in the long run but it takes a toll on my mental game when my pocket rockets get beat.

I was actually refering to both, flat calling a raise and simply limping when first to enter the pot; sorry I was not clear.

Since you're also interested in whether or not limping with aces is good.

There I drop the belief that you should call less than 1% of the time. In an un-raised pot you should never just call, never, ever, ever.

Limp-raising is more obvious than just leading out with a raise from early position. All you're going to achieve is to get a small raise from someone else who will then hear alarm bells the instant you re-raise. The pre-flop bets aren't worth the risk, just lead out with a bet and hope for a call or a re-raise.

That applies to cash games, tournaments may be different.

I agree with your thought that limp-raise will raise more doubts than a simple raise in normal conditions. But i play with very aggressive players and have an image of being more aggressive than the most. So my limp-raise are considered a cheap attempt to steal the pot and i get called more often.

I will adjust my limp or raise decision based on position, my table image and the players who are in later position.

IMO, Villain play was wrong here. There were only 3 players behind him so the chances of him getting raised were low, SB/BB could hold any kind of cards, very difficult to read if low card flop hit them.

Limp with AA is fine if 6-7 players are yet to call and the players after hero are aggressive and known to steal blinds.

you know probably for the most part you'll want to raise and not limp. but you want to play the hand to get the most out of it.
i've played them both ways and it just depends on your opp's and the table image you have and the table your at, etc. because it is a "blank" when you can't get any action on a potentially good hand.
as harrington has said big hand "big pot" small hand "small pot" .
so for a monster hand you want a monster pot, lol.
because i've learned especially when i need to increase my chip count i want to smooth play them and trap someone and i'll take my chances, rather then scaring them away with a huge bet. and believe me i played them hard and soft (min bet) and couldn't get any action....
and so i'll continue with "i can't get nooooooooo satisfaction" lol.
gl and peace

It is sometimes correct, at the right kind of table, to limp with aces in early postion with the hope of someone raising behind you. But I don't think its ever correct to just limp with the intentions of seeing a flop. You let a lot of absolute crap in cheaply by doing that. And its certainly not correct to just call a raise preflop with aces, (unless maybe heads up) because preflop is where you should be looking to get the most in. (when your heavily favoured to win)

The exception, I suppose, would be if you were trying to trap someone. But you should only ever try and trap one player. Two and it gets tricky.