Shortstack Strategy (opinions)

Hi i started to play nl10 with the shortstack estrategy. I never really liked that much this strategy but it's great to unlock the new bonus on full tilt, so i give it a try.

I'm not very used to play cash games, i play mainly sitngos, so i didn't wanted to start with the hole stack.

So far i'm doing pretty bad, after 7 days playing i'm -$5,23 dolars.

I'm started to get a little frustrated, for now i'm playing sessions of one hour with 4 tables at the time. Two or three sesions for day.

¿What do you think about this strategy?
¿Does anybody ever won money playing it?

SS is all about volume and rackback/FPPs, your trying to take advantage of such small edges that if u dont have rackback and cant like 24table you be much better of just buying in full and learning how to play deepstacked poker.
Also at 10nl your winrate would be much higher by buying in full if u just put a litle time studying since the play at 10nl is prett bad.

Beeing down 5$ shouldnt surprise u since shortstacking is extremly varience high and even the best shortstacker would hit months of break even/losing poker(besides most of SS money comes from rackback)


And finaly, all shortstackers burn in hell , no offence...

Yeah, good luck getting help on how to shortstack, lol. Most people will tell everyone and anyone who will listen how much they want shortstackers to die.

Gl though, I only know how to play against the SSers

What exactly is your short stack strategy? If you can stand the high variance, you can make money, although it's somewhat harder at mico-limits since the rake is a higher percentage. In any case, the key is to identify players who fold too easily. By focusing on them as much as possible, you win more small pots without going to showdown.

That was legit L'ingOL Belgo, nice

Yeah i don't like to play this way either but i still don't have a bankroll to play deepstacked. I think i'm going to get back to sitngos anyway.

Please tell me that we are not going to have another arrogant thread in which some of the less polite (and more conceited members) abuse those who choose to play in a different style, one which does not suit their awesomeness.

I lost much of my respect for certain CCers the last time you did that. Please don`t make me despise you entirely.

i assume you refer to RING: Why do people NOT like short stackers? and i'm the arrogant CCer you lost respect for? Let's just say it's reciprocal.

That is the thread I meant, but I purposely named no names. It is not my intention to pick a fight with any individual. I do, however, think we should all remember that CC is a friendly forum, and it is not in the spirit of this place to insult people who do not play as we prefer.

That thread actually had some solid discussion about the kind of edge shortstackers exploit and how to adjust to minimize the damage they inflict on the games. Mixed in with a few insults, that's true, but it had more useful content than 95% of the threads in the strategy forum.

Ok, so discuss the strategy and leave out the insults. Then we will all be happy.

I'm pretty sure there are several threads around CC stating the exact opposite; that short stacking is not profitable at the micro's due to the rake. amirite?

it's profitable as soon as most people at the table play a preflop hand selection that does not do well 20bb deep. at higher stakes, the deep stacked regs do that because it's correct 100bb+ deep, so the shortstackers feed on that. At micro stakes, people do that because on average they are fishes.

The variance you encounter is more defined by the size of the blinds, not by the size of your stack.

I was given some advice here and will pass it along. Never mind the bonuses and concentrate on improving your game. If you learn to play winning poker this will more than make up for any bonus you receive now. As for short stacking this will limit your winrate. So I wouldn't try to pursue this and go with a game you like best and try to get better at that.

Interesting...

The thing with short-stackers, is if they can do it well they can play a style that is in fact unable to be exploited by others playing correct strategy for 100bb+ deep.

However, you are going to be really hard-pressed to find such a thing as a good short-stacker anywhere below 400nl.

I can't really give you any advice on how to do it correctly, cuz I like deep-stacks, and that's what I stick to. From what I hear it's a pretty mind-numbing style to employ.

Anyway i apologize, i tought this was a community and that we the members are here to support each other, to exchange opinions, to clear out some doubts that we could have. I have encountered, in some of the threads that i've made, some people that i would prefer they don't post at all. They just not trying to help anybody.

Some questions pop up to my mind:

¿Why they write comments only to say unproductive things?

¿What's the point of being an asshole with those people who are just starting to play the game?

¿Arrogance? ¿Why? ¿What are they trying to probe?

Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves, i don't know. I'm starting now to ignore the post of certain people in this forum.

I was not asking for advice on how to play it, it a extremely simple style to play. I just wanted to know if anyone of you ever try to play like this, and what were the results.

I'm guessing not

its not exactly simple, a good SS strategy involves a lot of math

RING: Why do people NOT like short stackers?

^^^ try reading that thread, theres good math and good discussion underneath it all

Removed the derail, let's get back on topic please.

Yeah, I wouldn't exactly call it simple either. It's simpler than deep-stacks because a wider range is going to be worth jamming on the flop, or committing on the flop/jamming any turn, but I don't think you'll be able to just auto-pilot, playing some magical hand range and make a profit.

Ok, you're right. What i was trying to say was that is much more simple to play than deep-stack. This is because you don't have to make so many post flop decisions. Once you entered i the hand is pretty much bet or fold. And most of the times you will be all-in preflop.

I didn't meant to be arrogant with that post, like i got all figured out (not even close, i'm still a fish).

Join the club

Its not worth perusing a SS strategy at micro stakes.

1. The skill level is such that you should be able to beat it provided you put in some real study and practice.

2. The edge you have when playing a SS strategy is very small, therefore you need to be playing over 20 tables rather than 4.

3. As the edge is so small, rake is an obstacle. You will need rake back,, but even then, the amount paid in rake cancels out most of your tiny edge. Therefore you need to play at stakes where the rake is capped, i.e. 200NL and above.

4. At micro stakes, players do not always play with definable ranges and therefore it becomes harder to play a shove / fold strategy against a player who doesn't realise that, whilst his hand has value, it doesn't have enough value to justify his call against your range.

5. SS strategy is somewhat cancelled out by the presence of other SS's at the table. Many microstakes tables have several SS's at them, making Table selection much harder.

I think this stragegy is ok to win a little without risk alot...
But it's also a very boring stragegy and it's pretty ABC.
If you want to play a much nicer game you better play an other stragegy with some more veriantion in the game...
It's nicer and you can make more money, but also loose faster if you can't handle it...

Very good analysis Stu. Thanks.

U should not play so many tables at the same time. When u are playing just one table u could analyze better the other players and make more money.

I respectfully disagree.
It is true that your BB/100 may drop the more tables you add but the more hands mean your $/hour rate increses.
So yes your winrate might decrese but your actual profits will increse.
That is all asuming u can comfortably multi table.
Sry for hijack.

I signed up to pokerstrategy before and they have a lot of short stack material. I don't really understand the reason that it has become so wide spread, but it must work somewhat or is it just a new crazyness of the masses?

I notice that a lot of players haven't fully grasped the idea of playing shortstacked. Also seeing the tables full of shortstackers on partypoker makes me further believe that the players don't really know what they are doing because at a table of shortstackers nobody probably has a signficant edge.

The reason people hate shortstackers is that it is impossible to have a fully optimal (pre-flop) strategy against opponents of multiple stack sizes.

And yes, short stackers must die

It is posible, you just have to 3bet with T9

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
SB ($9.70)
BB ($0.94)
UTG ($3.32)
UTG+1 ($10.07)
UTG+2 ($5.93)
CO ($5.38)
Hero ($1.30)

Dealt to Hero A♥ K♠

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.30, fold, BB raises to $0.94 (AI), Hero calls $0.64

FLOP ($1.93) 2♠ 2♣ T♥

TURN ($1.93) 2♠ 2♣ T♥ 8♠

RIVER ($1.93) 2♠ 2♣ T♥ 8♠ 8♦

Hero shows A♥ K♠
(Pre 59%, Flop 25.7%, Turn 13.6%)

BB shows 9♦ T♦
(Pre 41%, Flop 74.3%, Turn 86.4%)

BB wins $1.81

Or limp/call a preflop raise with J9o

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
SB ($10)
BB ($14.43)
UTG ($19.33)
UTG+1 ($8.71)
Hero ($2.09)
MP1 ($9.60)
MP2 ($10.32)
CO ($2.63)
BTN ($14.58)

Dealt to Hero A♥ A♣

UTG calls $0.10, fold, Hero raises to $0.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.40, UTG calls $0.40

FLOP ($1.55) 4♥ 9♦ 5♣

BB checks, UTG bets $1.20, Hero raises to $1.59 (AI), BB folds, UTG calls $0.39

TURN ($4.73) 4♥ 9♦ 5♣ 2♠

RIVER ($4.73) 4♥ 9♦ 5♣ 2♠ 9♣

UTG shows 9♥ J♠
(Pre 17%, Flop 18.4%, Turn 11.4%)

Hero shows A♥ A♣
(Pre 83%, Flop 81.6%, Turn 88.6%)

UTG wins $4.42

Why you didn't have 20BB at the first hand?
Cope with your beats and play more.

Well... in the anterior hand i was beaten by the same guy and i didn't get the time to rebuy.

That he had T4 and i AK, of course. He went all-in preflop and hit his 4 on the flop.

Auto-reload = the nuts

It's simple: sites like pokerstrategy make their winning based on the rake generated by his players, and the sss generates a lot of rake.