Sensing weakness?

#1 22-04-2008, 2:44 PM

So i read an article about Annett_15 and her strategy how she played one of the tourneys without looking at the cards(she looked few times i think according to another interview i read) but the point is that she made most of her decisions sensing the weakness of her opponenets. So i tried to do that as well, and it does not seem to work that great. Especially when there are aggressive players at your table. They always raise so how do i figure they are actually weak. I was wondering how do you guys sense weakness in the aggressive players at your table that constantly raise and reraise your ass. Thanks!

#2 22-04-2008, 4:50 PM

Experience, experiance, and more experience. We cant become D Negranue and J Harmon over night, but then they werent that great overnight either. But in answer there are a number of things I look at.
1: How quickly did he raise?
2: Size of raise in relation to the pot?
3: Position Position Position.
I suppose with me it comes down to intuition and watching the table play a few hands before I enter pots. Also it may help to get a deep stack before attempting to push agg. players out of a pot with minimal holdings. That way once you are deep and your opp seems weak, you can re-raise and if he shows resistance it wont have hurt you too bad. Post flop play is the hardest part of your game to hone, but it will come in time.

#3 22-04-2008, 8:05 PM

You can view her hand history somewhere, if you haven't already. Just search "Annette_15 180" on google and you'll find it.

However, she did that on a 180 man 4$ SnG. The purpose was to test herself (and bragging rights, of course). She basically won it by playing position. Most pots she won were through a small preflop raise in late position to steal the blinds or by punishing limpers in front of her. She did these because she couldn't see her own cards; the optimal way to play these kind of micro stakes donkfests are to wait for huge cards and getting paid, not by making risky plays. The way to sense weakness in these kind of tournaments? Limps and calls are weak. Bets and raises are strong. Rare is the time you'll find a player who can mix up his play (or realize when others are doing it) in these things. People really won't re-raise you preflop with less than pocket kings.

So, where am I going with this? You really don't have to deal with good aggressive players if you play micro stakes. When you have enough experience you'll learn intuitively how to react against better players.

So yeah, watch it if you haven't already, you may add something more to your game. Plus it's funny to see her fold KK under the gun... also, watch her hand history on her win on the 11$ Sunday Hundred Grand. Insane how she could beat a 20000 player field...

#4 23-04-2008, 9:02 PM

Do you have a link where i can see hand history of the 11$ Sunday Hundred Grand ?

#5 23-04-2008, 11:12 PM

[quote=TheseNutsWin;777910]"i tried to do that as well, and it does not seem to work that great. Especially when there are aggressive players at your table"
maybe not the time to try it..... pos. and taking advantage of weaker players, &/or watching betting patterns of the agg. players to get an idea of when to put them to the test.

#6 23-04-2008, 11:17 PM

[quote=ABorges;778090]
"Rare is the time you'll find a player who can mix up his play (or realize when others are doing it) in these things.
So, where am I going with this? You really don't have to deal with good aggressive players if you play micro stakes."

--- how true, great point! ,.. the finer subtletys of poker are lost in online micro-stakes (they won't be thinking on a mulit-level style of play) so best to keep it simple for the most part. Play your good hands hard.

#7 23-04-2008, 11:34 PM

A nice 'weakness' tell: if they bet too little to protect a hand like top pair against a flush draw, then, surprise (!), they don't have top pair !

Also, any bet that is the same size or smaller than a previous betting street is usually weakness.

#8 01-05-2008, 1:56 AM

"Also, any bet that is the same size or smaller than a previous betting street is usually weakness."

Totally disagree. I reckon it leaves uncertainty if you same size bet. But you are giving away better odds due to increased pot

#9 01-05-2008, 1:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ruatorian

"Also, any bet that is the same size or smaller than a previous betting street is usually weakness."

Totally disagree. I reckon it leaves uncertainty if you same size bet. But you are giving away better odds due to increased pot

Then you would be totally wrong. I'm willing to say that 90% of the time this is a weak or marginal hand.

Of course there are always exceptions:

1. someone betting their draw, then min/small betting when they hit (retarded, but it happens).
2. smaller value bets on the river are not as applicable (escalating bets pre, flop, turn, then smaller on the river are NOT weakness).
3. someone flops the stone unredrawable nuts and get cute.
4. VERY rarely someone (such as yourself perhaps) might do this for deception purposes (maybe with a hand like tptk on a very dry board).

However, flop bets that are smaller than the preflop raise, and turn bets that are smaller than the flop bet are weakness a HUGE percentage of the time.

#10 01-05-2008, 2:03 PM

I totally agree with AG it is a huge weakness tell that is a nice little gift to your stack, your theory may be true for more complex players that sense strength attempting to trap but ive seen it many many times (possibly the most common mistake i see online) i guess this kind of thinking is way over the average (online) players head but its money for the skilled.

Each to their own but in the end it doesnt matter because your read should be consisting of much more then the betting pattern and it comes down to situation like everything else. I personally greatly enjoy observing players make this mistake constantly in online play, i suggest everyone look out for it (if they arent making the mistake i suggest you decrease your bet slightly when your holding the nuts they will reraise or atleast call!!) oh yea whatever path you go make sure you remember that they have to be constantly making or not making this mistake once or twice doesnt count

I was once heads up against a deep stack and i used this to lure him in (knowing he would think im weak) ended up taking down a big one very profitable whichever way you use it!!

#11 01-05-2008, 2:31 PM

I like to be unpredictable. I have bluffed horrible hands so many times successfully because if you sit at a table, and let someone think you play one way for 1-2 hours, then you can bluff their life out from under them.

It's tricky. I like to let people get comfortable with my style of play, and then when I feel its right, I switch it up, I'd say 95% of the time I'm successful too. This works both on and offline.

#12 02-05-2008, 8:00 PM

This is very well written and makes alot of sense to me. Thanks for the advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABorges

You can view her hand history somewhere, if you haven't already. Just search "Annette_15 180" on google and you'll find it.

However, she did that on a 180 man 4$ SnG. The purpose was to test herself (and bragging rights, of course). She basically won it by playing position. Most pots she won were through a small preflop raise in late position to steal the blinds or by punishing limpers in front of her. She did these because she couldn't see her own cards; the optimal way to play these kind of micro stakes donkfests are to wait for huge cards and getting paid, not by making risky plays. The way to sense weakness in these kind of tournaments? Limps and calls are weak. Bets and raises are strong. Rare is the time you'll find a player who can mix up his play (or realize when others are doing it) in these things. People really won't re-raise you preflop with less than pocket kings.

So, where am I going with this? You really don't have to deal with good aggressive players if you play micro stakes. When you have enough experience you'll learn intuitively how to react against better players.

So yeah, watch it if you haven't already, you may add something more to your game. Plus it's funny to see her fold KK under the gun... also, watch her hand history on her win on the 11$ Sunday Hundred Grand. Insane how she could beat a 20000 player field...

#13 02-05-2008, 8:33 PM

It is very very hard to sense weakness online against a decent player. If a guy is switching his play up, you can be fooled very easily if you are counting on bet sizes, etc. That is not to say that it is impossible to sense weakness, because you can usually pick apart a weak player, after only a few hands against them. All I am saying is that it can lead to BIG problems if you arent sure, because a good player will trap you if he sees that you are being too aggressive. I routinely rotate from playing "strong" to "weak" and catch alot of guys that probably wouldnt have if they hadnt had thought that I was one of the "weak" players.

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