Representing the flop.

DAMMIT I LOVE THIS GUY!!!


lederer write a book

Love the work put into this, but it assumes that players will generally follow pot and draw odds. While this may happen on large limit tables, you can forget it with low stakes. I do this myself when I know the table is playing "by the rules"; however, there are a LOT of players that will call anything with nothing...

But are u sure youre not copy and pasting this shit

does this apply for No Limit????

This isn't a cut and paste. Too many gramatical errors. Nope, this cat knows his shit. Keep it up Jesus.

I agree, this will work with people who play like you. With the wide range of crazy to timid players out there - it won't work all the time. They'll call you to the river and hit their card and suck you out so fast. What Jesus says is really logic if you think about it - but many players online are certainly not logical. LOL

I use this strategy a lot. If I am holding nothing and flop come 2 4 7, I always make a fair bit just atfer the flop. It often weeds out all those not holding or chasing. If you get raised, fold 'em. Only a top pair calls or raises this.

Nice advice though, Lederer

I like to bet at a non-descript pot ususally with middle or bottom pair and an overcard, it gives you lots of outs if you are called, and if u hit your overcard or top 2 pair you can really cream it otherwise its an easy fold !!

i'm gald that there are people like you helping people like me!
cheers mate

Good post, but I disagree with one statement. You said you should always represent the flop when you raised pre-flop, and I couldn't disagree more. I understand where you're coming from, and it IS a good idea to represent the flop a majority of the time - but I wouldn't do ANYTHING EVERY time. First you've got to take into consideration how many people called you, and what position they are in. You've got to start putting people on hands. I'm about to start a thread on this and I will discuss it more intensely.

There is a lot of good points in what you said. However there is one thing that I feel you have overlooked here which can and has also been a very useful tool for me. You said that if you bet before the flop, you should represent after the flop. While yes this is a good idea and something people should try and work into their game, raising before the flop and then checking after the flop can have it's advantages as well, in certain situations. I personally would say a person should represent more than check after a raise preflop. But I can use 2 examples from a tournament I recently played in (where I finished 2nd) to prove my point.

I had a very healthy stack of chips during both of these occasions (250k-350k).
On two hands I raised preflop with hands that are worthy of a raise. What they were, well I will keep that a secret . Anyway in both instances, I hit my "key" card and knew I had the better hand. I was first to act both times and checked both times to make myself look like I missed. I was raised at both times and then I re-raised my opponents back forcing them all in. They thought that I had missed my hands in both occasions when really they were heavily dominated.

While representing is usually the better play, there are times in poker when a raise pre-flop and a check after the flop isn't always a bad idea.

He didn't say he was representing the flop when he hit his key card. He was pointing out that he raised pre-flop with decent hole cards then check-raised the flop, he didn't slow play the hand at all. He check-raised. Slow playing is basically giving your opponent another street for free or cold calling his raise when you hold a big hand. Maybe a check-raise can be considered a type of slow play, but he re-raised his opponent all-in after he checked and before the turn. Not to slow if you ask me.

In other news, this thread is old as Moses. What the hell is it doing alive?

He didn't say he was representing the flop when he hit his key card. He was pointing out that he raised pre-flop with decent hole cards then check-raised the flop, he didn't slow play the hand at all. He check-raised. Slow playing is basically giving your opponent another street for free or cold calling his raise when you hold a big hand. Maybe a check-raise can be considered a type of slow play, but he re-raised his opponent all-in after he checked and before the turn. Not to slow if you ask me.

In other news, this thread is old as Moses. What the hell is it doing alive?

Some describe this as continuation betting. Take it one step further. 1 out the 5 times you are representing the flop...Don't even look at the flop. You have been the preflop aggressor, eveyone perceives that they are drawing to you, so you are betting or raising regardless of the flop. So dont even LOOK at it. watch your opponents 1 by 1 "check to the raiser". Then pull the trigger!
* Obviously dont do this alot, just very rarely when you know you are betting the flop no matter what comes up. but try it once in a while. It will open doors to the raw aggression that is required in the game. They can't "read" you, because you dont even know what you have. You simply know that they don't have, and are betting they don't!
Make Stu Ungar proud, who by the way did this often.

Bill
ps Stuey and God are playing heads up right now...The last I heard God was on tilt and asking for a new set up. Stuey is up and now owns approximatley 30% of heaven.

In related news Stu just donked his 30% stake in heaven off last night in a boat race with Noah.

i hate doing it, but when i do i can be good for me

What is the one single best piece of advice for a beginner like myself?

PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE....dont have it you will lost a bundle (I remember 2002). Start by playing Limit Hold'em...I perfer 1/2 over .5/1 tables. YOu must learn the math.

Brad play these hands ONLY (since you are new) AA KK QQ JJ 1010 99 88 AK AQ and Asuited (not raised) for 5000 hands. Then add KQ QJ AJ (suited or not). You should never 'cold call' without at least AK or big pair 1010 +. Then re-raise it.

This should put you at 12-15% vip 'voluntary in pot' and generally you will see 20% of the total flopps...playing 20 of 100 hands. I have found that in general you should statistically win 10% of the pots in a full table ring game 10 players. So if you enter 20 hands of 100 you will win 50% of them. (not everytime) but average.

Oh yeah raise with AA KK QQ AK AQ re raise a raise with AA KK QQ AK (jacks are different to me as there are 3 ways to play them and all are wrong)

I was a newbie once....If I had taken this list and advise 2002 would have been a profit year.

Do not chat ingame...EVER..EVER...EVER...take a bad beat or feel tilty...sit out and do something else for awhile...I see lots of players (good ones) whe sit out 10 hands after taking a bad beat.