Razz Strategies

I've been playing in some Razz tournaments and wanted to know if any people have stratagies they would like to share. I'm not very expericienced in the game. If anyone has any links to other threads or sites (if that is permitted in here) that would also be great. I tend to do well early in the tournaments, but when the limits get large I often get knocked out.

wel my only strategy would have to be, play only the hands were ur first three cards are 8 high or lower, no pairs.. idk wat else to tell u.

the best way imo to learn razz is , not to read a strategy, but to play the game and u will learn what works and what doesnt

Here's a good post I found on bluffing. I don't know how to quote it in here. But I do want to give credit to stan7777 who posted it originally. And I do agree with the point that bluffing is a good strategy and have been sucessful at doing it.

Razz and the Art of Bluffing
This blog is the result of a comment that stated you can't bluff in RAZZ. Boy are they wrong. The art of the bluff starts with hand selection. Thus you must be profiecent at board reading. You also must be a student of the art of table image.
You get (K 10) 2 an insta fold normally. You can also replace either hole card with a paired flop. Your in mid position to late mid and the bring has been done and then folded to you. You look at the board cards of the opponents left to act. I also watch all folded board cards as part of my card counting procedure every hand. The first criteria is you should have the lowest board card of the players remaining. I will make the play with a 2 and an ace showing if the ace is a tight player. He'll fold the none 3 card low. Which actually helps me against the other opponents. To clarify for those who don't play RAZZ much. The 3 low is generally 3 cards 8 or under unpaired on the flop. A low 3 can become a problem on future streets as odds favour lower cards on those streets becoming more likely. We prefer to make this play when hands are 7, 8 , 9 ect. against us on the flop. You complete only. Never reraise here! If reraised after you, fold and move on.Then you look to 4th street for the key card. A low card is important, but higher cards for the opponents is much more important. Lets say you get a 4 to go with the 2. Board (X X) 2 4 and the best of 2 opponents is 3 9. You got something started now. Next you only bet the minimum if its unraised to you, never check and never, ever reraise. They will alaways call. Important point here. Your table image should of established you as a tight good player already. That means your reraises are on nut made hands only! And I mean only. So lets get 5th street. You have ( X X) 2 4 6 and you chased 1 opponent with the last bet leaving (X X ) 2 9 10. They have a ten low possible at this point to your possible 6 low. More Importantly we know they need 2 card improvement to beat our mythical 6 low. This is board reading at it's fundamental level. We set this up by betting 4th street and now bet again on 5th street. You take down the pot 8-10 times right here. The opponent has to consider runner/runner to beat you and that's a tough hill to climb. If he had 2 low cards less than 5 in the hole he would have raised you after the flop. Thus you can be assured he doesn't have the ability to beat a made 6 high. That's the good RAZZ players thinking here. What's my best possible hand and and what is likely to be there's. If your called and you both see 6th street one rule applies because they needed runner/runner to get to a hand that beat or equalled your 6 high potential holding. Raise with anything after 6th street. Your playing probabilities versus your actual hand. I've used X X for our hole cards because they don't matter here. Who cares about them being K 10, we didn't when we decided to play so don't now. If 6th street gives us a Q we bet out and reraise if we are given the chance, even reraising the reraise if we are so lucky. We are representing the nut 6 low to the max. If they improved by hitting a card under the 9 they still only have a 9 low ar best. You gotta sell the nuts for all it's worrth. The best you can get yourself is 10 low now and that's not going to win against a perpetual caller here. You now should have the pot won 9-10, maybe a little better percentage than that. On the river you absolutely bet out. There are very few things in poker more satisfying than scooping a pot with garbage! You must be willing to sell it to the very end. If they bet out on the river even reraise again, though your probably going to get called I like it as one last stab at getting them to fold.
A somewhat similar approach can be used on another simillar bluff/steal. This is the semi bluff on 3rd or 4th street. You can only use it once per hand. But many times at a table once you've established table image. You must have established your table image 1st. You must also not have reraised before 5th street and only raised with made nut hands, Again board reading so important to deciding to make this play! You get ( A K ) 2 the bring and folded to you in late position, 2 players or fewer to act. This is a very key point to this steal. 3 or more players and you do not make this play. In the event of multiple callers you have to be able to manage future streets. More players makes this very difficult. Where 3 low On the flop 5 high or lower is a natural reraise in RAZZ I save that exclusively for A 2 3 to allow me the opportunity to reraise to steal here. A 2 3 rarely makes it too the river. Betting will normally shut it down before 7th street. I always make sure the table knows what I reraised on after the flop to help set up this play. The other criteria is the board cards of the other 2 opponents., excluding the bring of course.They must both be 6 or higher. we don't want to reraise into a potentail 3 under 5 hand on the flop. Not with are ugly king in the hole. I should point out that your not reraising as a form of pot building. You just want to win the pot and move on. This is simillar to the holdem strategy on the button raising to steal blinds and antes. Stealing small pots allows you to see more hands and stay longer in a tourney. Same here in RAZZ. Those antes add up. It helps negate the pain of the bring also. note The bring is the complete bet and is forced by the house to be done by the highest card on the flop. What do you do if you get a caller or even 2 to 4th street. Now we read the board for each opponent again. If you have the "potential" best nut hand raise or reraise again. We're stealing after all! Lets say our board is now (A K) 2 A. Its a terible card, couldn't be worse? Yes it could! Much worse. We may have some bluff/fold equity with a bet. You only have 2 choices give up on the hand as you need runner/runner/runner to make any kind of low or fire a bullet. We reraised on the flop thus we can make the holdem equivilent of a continuation bet here. Your looking for a board that is (X X) 6 7 or worse held by your opponent/s. There staring at potentially needing 3 runners to beat or tie your potential 5 high. Good players rarely call your raise. If they bet 1st reraise everytime or fold. Never call with this type of holding.If they call and you get a 3 4 or 5 on 5th street absolutely fire another bullet even if thier hand gets a card under 5. They have to decide if they need runner/runner to chase you for low. The most important cards in RAZZ are the board cards for leveraging your bets. In other forms of stud the hole card are more important. Your playing the other players boards in these steal examples. Simply put in RAZZ your always playing others boards as well as your own. Playing the player is the second, less desireable option. Nut low boards is a key to deciding wether to see another card or not. Moving your chips on the other hand is always designed to convey information. Including the old favorite of mine. You gotta pay for your draws folks!
You can't make this kind of play early in a freeroll or tourney. But your not ready to anyway because you haven't established table image yet as being a tight player. Remember also you want your bets to mean something to the rest of the table. Only reraise with nut made hands 5th street and beyond. Never reraise on a 4 card draw. You want your opponents to believe you have the made hand when you reraise. In limit this is the only true form of fold equity I have been able to develop. They're folding on my word that I'm good in the hand, But we all know there's a little larceny in poker.

Here are some Links I just found. I haven't been able to read them yet but it looks like some really good info and strategies from some pros for Razz. Possibly this will help our Razz games and if if others look at the links we can discuss them in this thread, Thanks to 4Aces who originally posted these links:

Here are a few articles that helped me totally destroy 50c/$1 and $1/$2 Razz on fulltilt.

Razz Poker Strategy, Tips and Rules - How and Where to Play Razz Online
Stud Poker Strategy – Razz, Part One | Poker Strategy
Stud Poker Strategy - Razz Part II | Poker Strategy
Razz Poker Strategy
Two Plus Two Internet Magazine
Two Plus Two Internet Magazine , Vol. 4, No. 1

Also, (although I have not read it myself yet) I suggest you get "Sklansky on poker" and read the Razz section.
Just play tight, simple, wait for good staring hands and you'll have way the best of it at the low limits.

Listening's work / writing on razz is solid gold, FWIW.

thanks for strategies, even though they are great , i do bluff %5 of time and prefer solid play. dont know why.

My basic beginning strategy is:

Raise any with 5 high or better.

Complete/call with 6-7 high.

Call an uncompleted bet with 8 high or A2#.

Then it comes down to playing your opponents hand, just as much as your own. If you have (3,6)3,A,6 and your opponent started out well but ended up at (x,x)2,K,10 you should be able to get him out of the hand. Even though you really only have 3 cards, you look scary.

I know what you mean. I like razz but I still think its the most frustrating game there is. Some days you run great, others you get great starting hands that end up full of face cards and pairs, and then there's the days when you never get a good looking hand at all.

razz is a great low game, I love playing razz, and the strategy i like to use is hold the 3 starting low cards under 8. good luck

I LOVE playing RAZZ!!! It is pretty cool to go for the lowest hand. Definitely play the hand when the first 3 cards and 8 or lower. However, if 2 out of 3 are 7 or lower.....CALL and fold if the next card is 9 or higher. Sometimes though you will be on equal playing field if your opponents 4th card is high!

NIT!!!

Tight play is never a bad idea in a cash game, but in a tourney you have to play looser than this.

Read the FTP tourney strat book section with Ted Forrest and Huck Seed. Also, Sklansky on Poker has the definitive section on cash game play. Listening's articles are excellent from what I've read as well. She posts a lot in the razz section on one of the coaching sites I subscribe to and always has good insight into the game imo.

I also really enjoy razz. I actually just kinda stumbled into it one day at Full tilt. I saw a razz freeroll and decided to enter. During the waiting period before the tourney, I went to some sites and found information pretty much like poker d player gave (good info, by the way) and placed 22 out of 2700. And that was my first time to play. ever since I have been intrigued by razz and the concepts, because I see it as a completely different game. I will say that like poker d said, table image is one of the most important things at a razz table.

Guess i just enjoy a game where having 2 7 can be a good thing

One important thing to know about razz, which most people dont realise, (if you ever play in a tourney, you get a lot of people complaining about bringing in often and not understanding why) is that the person with the highest card face up is the person that brings in.. So most of the time, your not gonna wanna a hand where you bring in - unless you have two good cards face down - then it can be worth playing... the best hands are those where you have 5 cards lower than 7 or 8, but you also want to have some bad cards face up because thats when your gonna win a big pot because people are going to call you when you raise - ive seen people get into raising matches where both clearly have a good hand, but one of them ends up with like A234 showing, and the other person folds just because its pretty clear that the person with A234 almost certainly has a better hand

Playing consistent against uninformed players at the cash tables is pretty straight forward. You can sit back and not force yourself into a race on 3rd or 4th street.

My main problem with Razz are the tournies. They always come down to races on 3rd or 4th street with blinds constantly going up. I honestly don't feel like I have an edge over the average player at this point.

no stratey.. just play your cards.. and look at the cards others have to calculate chances etxc...

razz is made on 4th street. you want your first 3 cards to all be under 8 and if your 4th street catches good then always bet be agressive unless the person you are up against is the rock of gibralter with A2 up.

I think in tournaments you need to be ready to adjust your play to table and proceed accordingly. I've heard Barry Greenstein say that Razz and Stud-8 are the two games at the World Series that see the worst play, and I agree. You'll see so many players just "get their 7 cards" and see what happens. So you've gotta be ready to let go of hands when you brick off a couple of times.

That being said, in tourneys I'll generally muck all but the standard "three unpaired below 8" hands, and play smooth draws much more aggressively on later streets.

[qoute]wel my only strategy would have to be, play only the hands were ur first three cards are 8 high or lower, no pairs.. idk wat else to tell u.[/quote]

I agree this is the only way to play razz against a full table anyway. The odds just don't favor a weak start. I'm sure there are bluffers out there, but unless your opponents have at least two high cards visible a dangerous way to play.

3 cards 8 or better .. but you have to fold if you get a crap card ..especially if alot of low cards are played out...the hardest part to playing razz is focusing on the cards that others see you have ..and two ...getting caught hoping others have crap in the hole..sure some players play all the way down to the last card hoping for their miracle card and you lose to a player like that ... but you should assume right from the start if someone is calling bets with bad cards up both their hole cards are good...be patient ...