Question on PT3 graphs

Ok, please forget the fact that it's a downhill slope. I admit I was quite the fish when I started playing, and Rush poker bled me to death! I have since quit playing rush, and am concentrating on 5NL 6max. I started doing this about the 52K mark. At least it's mostly leveled off. (I admit the couple dips were from some rush I snuck in there. For some reason, i cannot make money in rush).

My question is about the money won with showdown, and money won w/o showdown lines. The money w/ SD seems to climb since I stared 5NL 6max, as the w/o SD line keeps dropping. Is this a leak I'm overlooking? What does it mean about my play? I've also thrown in my stats for 5NL 6 max if that helps. It's about 22K hands.

Thanks for any help!


By billdogg87 at 2010-10-29


By billdogg87 at 2010-10-29

Worry about your green line.

Your VPIP and PFR spread is way to big which is probably why your money won without showdown isn't very good. Your probably completing to many small blinds and things of that nature. Think about raising instead of calling and try to get that gap down.

First, filter the graph for 6-max only and leave out the rush poker so you can get a better idea on how your doing.
Second, I'm not a 6-max guy and hopefully someone will chime in but yes I think that would be a leak your red line stinking like that in 6-max.
You PFR for 6-max is low. Stop calling and raise or fold.
Last, google 'ryan fees 6-max' he has a nice e-book about 6-max(free).

Ok, I didn't know i could filter it down to just 5nl 6 max, but I figured it out, and here it is. Thanks for the advice so far.


By billdogg87 at 2010-10-29

As WVHillbilly said, you should be worrying first and foremost about your green line, try playing a little tighter and raising more preflop, you should be targeting the fish at the table, almost all of your decisions should revolve around getting their money.

I don't think the red line is a problem, there are players who are beating 2nl with a negative one. Just make sure you're stealing in the right spots and c-betting in the right spots, there should be some threads on both in this forum.

Good luck !!!

Well if nothing else that graph looks alot better than the first. Plus it show a small win.

I did a google search on this, and came up with that I'm putting too much money into the pot only to fold. This does make sense to me as I'm regularly trying to target the fish by calling with hands they open with where I know I'm ahead of their range, but fail to connect with the flop, or any draws, and end up folding. I do get a hand eventually that gets their money, but I guess I should just wait for my spots a little better. Having the red line go south isn't completely horrible from what I've read, but I do need to work on it not going south so fast.

Also, will I ever have my "amount won" line over my "net expected win"?

At the risk of sounding repetitive :

Steal better
C-bet better
Double barrel better
Nothing wrong in folding marginal hands

That should help you quite a lot, build from there.

If you're already thinking about isolating fish, then that's great.

your right.
A negative redline means your folding to much.
But your redline really isnt THAT bad.
And your just not gonna get those folds at 5nl.


AND...
As already stated, focus on your Green line.
Worry about getting "Max Value" out of your strong hands.
Improve play.

Yes I understand I need to focus mainly on the green line, but I figured if I could plug a leak with the red line, my green line might grow. I'll have to try a slightly different strategy to see if it helps.

And yes, it is hard to get some fish to fold at 5NL. I'll raise with AK for example, they'll call. I'll miss the whole board, and they'll call down the whole way with Q4 when they paired their 4. The board can be as scary as can be, and they won't let it go. And it's not like a try bluffing a lot that they have me pinned as a bluffer.

Can someone let me know how I can insert larger sized graphs in a post or screen captures from PokerTracker? When I insert a graph it is so small.

Thanks

Take a print screen of your graph and then paste it into MS paint (or similar program), crop it so you're only left with the actual graph and save it as a jpg, upload it.

In PT3, look at graph in full size, export, save as .jpg.

Its spelled "Garph".

Ignore red line at micros.

There are lots of great resources out there - check out Ryan Fee's 6max NL Guide for starters. It covers ranges, which looking at your stats you need to look at

Thanks to both of you. I was saving as a .png file. Here's my graph in glorious IMAX format!!

Attached Images

BB Won over Hands Played for fx20736.jpg (114.5 KB, 113 views)

And 6 max only too

Next question. Is it normal that my "amount won" is never over my "net expended won"? In a game with no variance, I supposed it would always be the same, but is it normal to never be above net expected?

You need to look at your graph a little more closely. Any time the green line is over the gold line you're above expectation.

Looks like gold above green to me.

In the graph you just posted hands ~600 - 1300. Also check out the 1st graph you posted.

Hands 600-1300 make up about 3% of the graph I posted. How about the other 97%? And I'm concentrating on 1 stake now, so I'm ignoring the overall graph I posted.

Your question:
My Answer:
You can't look at 21K hands and say you run bad and that you'll never run good. Especially when you were above AIEV for a period during those 21K.

Here is the best thing you can do for yourself. IGNORE AIEV. Take it off your graph and NEVER turn it on. If you're "running bad" you'll use it as a crutch and fail to improve. If you're "running good" you'll feel bad waiting for everything to turn around. Save yourself the headache.

Ok, maybe I shouldn't have used the word never, since I was above 3% of the time. I also never said I run bad. I am just starting to learn how to analyze my play with PT3, so I'm looking for stuff that jumps out at me, and seeing if there's ways to improve.

The last suggestion was helpful, so thank you for that.

That EV line on the graph is bs. It just makes you blame variance for losing money, and when you're winning you're not sure if you're playing well.

Turn it off, come back in a few 100k hands and turn it on, and I'm sure it'll be right on track.

As other people said, worry about the slope of that green line, use the leakbuster and try play better poker.

Leakbuster? Is this a type of program to use with PT3?

I like when the yellow line is above my green line, since it means I'm playing better than my results.

(oversimplification)

Are you saying that if your green line is running above your gold your running hot? If so then I am on a 32k hands heater.

Attached Images

2nl11051553.jpg (78.3 KB, 59 views)

Yeah, and I am on a 30K hand cooler XD

AIEV is only one tiny part of luck.

FWIW, a cooler tends to be one hand in my experience - you're on a downswing

Turn off EV and forget about it

About the red line and the vpip/pfr spread.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with calling someone's open raise provided

1. you have position
2. you are in either one of these situations:
2.A. villain has a wide range and you think you can make him fold a lot postflop. This is particularly effective when calling with suited ace-x , suited connectors, basically any hand that can flop enough equity for you to semi bluff many boards with enough equity to make it profitable.
2.B. villain has a tight range and you think you can stack him a lot when you flop a monster. This is particularly effective when calling with pocket pairs in order to flop sets

When you get confused about 2A and 2B, i.e. you try too hard to make people with tight ranges fold, or you play fit or fold against people with a wide range, you start burning money.

oversimplification haha. i like the advice to not even look at it.

This is awesome advice!!!!!!!!