A Question about Pot and Implied Odds

Let's say we have a low pocket pair and we get to see the flop after calling a cheap raise with a lot of callers. We miss the ragged flop, which doesn't have any draws. EP bets out and we figure he has an overpair, and that we'll have the best hand if we hit our set. How do we figure the odds here? We are going to give ourselves some implied odds as he probably won't be able to lay down his high overpair, but what are the drawing odds? We have two outs. But do we figure 22.5 to 1 for just the turn to come, or do we figure 10.9 to 1 for turn and river combined?

You should calculate your odds one street at a time, since you can't yet factor in the COST of the turn bet. Your one street at a time calculations SHOULD, however, include any money not yet in the pot that you think will go in should you hit your set (possibly his entire stack).

This probably isn't a good situation to be considering a call if you think he has an overpair-- almost no [stack: pot: bet] ratio is going to allow you to call having just two outs.

So one street at a time. Thanks AG!

One more question I forgot to ask, how often will you flop a set with PPs?

I believe it's about 1 in 7.7
I don't know if you have a chart or not but if you want one, check this out > Your browser is too old - Texas Holdem Poker

According to Profressional No-Limit Hold'em you should play your small PPs when you can expect to win at least 12 times your original call/bet if you hit your set. So while your odds of hitting your set on the flop are about 8:1 you really need implied odds of 12:1 to play them profitably.

Why isn't pre-flop 8:1 (or slightly better) pot odds good enough?

It is, but you rarely will see 8:1 pot odds preflop, unless you're in the small blind with some limpers, or are in a large multi-way pot.

What implied odds refers to is the size of your opponents stack, and how likely you are to get paid off, and not so much the amount of $ in the pot.

For example, if you're in a tournament, and the blinds are 100/50. Your opponent who has 1300 chips raises to 300. Now obviously, if you call his 300, your opponent won't have enough in his stack to pay you off very much. Thus, when you miss, you'll lose the 300 raise you put in to see the flop. When you hit, you'll only win a maximum of 1000 more chips. This 1000 chip win doesn't pay you off sufficiently for the times when you lose 300 chips. Thus you do not have implied odds.

nice way of looking at this for me is totally position, how many in the pot, and are people playing tight or loose. Bet it on a tight table and expect to fold to over cards if they flop out. loose is pretty much a coin toss. Which brings me to my plans for the tourney and what stage it is. I want to win and would it be a good call to see the flop? pp only have two solid cards to hit on. four outer for both straights and flushes.

Because of several reasons, mostly that you can't always count on stacking your opponent every time you hit. From this thread:

12:1 seems to be the mathematically correct ratio (my lazy self had previously been using 10:1, but am now on the right path).