Question about 5 card draw

PokerStars Game #9732143396: Tournament #49387527, $1.00+$0.10 5 Card Draw Pot Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2007/05/03 - 16:49:56 (ET)
Table '49387527 1' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: alemdar (1230 in chips)
Seat 2: Red Bull 15 (2125 in chips)
Seat 3: Massi1410 (1055 in chips)
Seat 5: drewlito (1145 in chips)
Seat 6: jayneseo (3445 in chips)
Red Bull 15: posts small blind 15
Massi1410: posts big blind 30
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to jayneseo [6d 8d 7s 6c 5c]

Is it better to get rid of a 6 and try to draw a straight or keep my pair of sixes and hope to improve on them or something completely different (ie fold)?

chuck the 6 and draw th str8 it is all about wht hnd will bet the most and trips are not as good as the str8 dont know the math but i do know tht i chuck the 6 and draw the str8

ps am tired now so disregard above

As you have a nice lead - drop the 6 and go for the straight, also by seeing you are only drawing the 1 card be aware of how many others change as you may be able to scare them into an early fold

If you had fewer chips i would be tempted to go for a 2 card draw hoping to hit a set or 2nd pair.

Thanks, I ended up dropping the six but didn't hit my straight. Didn't bother betting though, all were calling stations, hence my early lead. Was dealt a boat and people kept, raising/calling

Just wanted to make sure I made the right move giving up my pair.

Ended up winning the whole SnG too!

Nice going - sometimes its best to sacrafice a small hand and you do hit that flush or straight then if your lucky (again, after drawing the miracle card lol ) you get paid as well

grats jay heres to many more

Thanks! I hope so.

umm how can anyone answer this without knowing what the pre-draw action was?

i can because i dont know anything about 5 card draw (hence the predraw matters not to me)


ALL IN

I've always played for the draw to what will make thw best hand inthesew kinda situations. BTW, I hink it'a a real kick that PS spreads 5 draw as both a ring and tourney game now. I'd like tp see it included in a CC series format at some point.

So it's more depended on predraw action, which action you chose?

Assuming you're BB

How would you react to a

1 Pot sized raise

2 Min raise

3 4 Limpers

4 2 Limpers


I know this is just going to lead to more questions by you but pretend you can answer this question with just this info provided (since the hand was yesterday I'm unsure about finding the HH)

assuming we're UTG+1 as in the posted hand...

1 - fold
2 - fold, maybe call and draw 1 to the straight if table is very loose-passive

(with 3 and 4 the conditions you specify are impossible for the original hand. i'll answer though)

3 - call, draw 1 to the straight
4 - call, draw 1 to the straight

if we're say the BB and the button minraises (all others fold) then i call and draw 3 to the sixes.

Thanks DM, you know you love incomplete HA from noob players.

Jay I don't know how much 5 card you play but dropping the 6 is the wrong move. This is were draw players make their money. Most inexperianced draw players will chase that str8 or flush. You, having the pair, are standing in a better position when they don't get their hand. Granted once in a while they will get that needed card but most times they don't. Watch how many times the hand is won by a high pair or two pair. You will see what the bread and butter hands of draw are.

Used to play as a kid and now just trying it out to see how I like it.

So then should I even call with just a pair of sixes five handed? Or is that just a fold? I know you play 5 card a lot and I appreciate your input

But if we get a few limpers in before us, it is in our interests to call and draw to the straight because (a) we're getting pot odds to do so, and (b) our pair of sixes isn't going to win the hand very often, even if we improve to a low two pair.

Obviously because we're in early position in the example in the OP this scenario can't happen, and so we really should just treat our hand as a pair of sizes and fold to any significant UTG action.

I would have dropped the 6 easily and you have 8 outs to make a straight assuming your opponents don't have it.

Interesting to see how modern games have effected 5 draw.

Blinds now instead of antes. That alone changes the nature of the game to where it should have a new name.

How do I think it changes the nature of the game you ask???? (I heard ya)

With antes, everyone has a stake in the pot from the gitgo. Encourages much more action. Very easy to fold if you have no stake in the pot.

IMO the game should never be played with more than 5 players. Tho extremely unusual, 6 players opens up the possibility of community cards. Granted, none of us are likely to see that in our lifetime, until the 5 cards you would have drawn are a royal on the board. There would need to be a rule limiting draws to 4 cards for more than 5, and if that was the case the limit could be 3 cards and play it 7 handed. It always got sloppy adding in discards to make sure there were enough cards in the deck. The 52 card limit is one of the reason community card games were developed, and gained favor.

I'm still waiting for a 20 player table for holdem, or Omaha.

OMG!

5 card draw was the first game i ever learned to play and i played it for many many years. From my experience people play it very different from holdem and you should never try to use holdem logic in the 5 card game.
First of all if you have a pair with a chance for a straight you always play your pair and the main reason for that is if you are in the lead dont give it up. Another reason is making a striaght in 5 card is not as good as holdem because here trips beat a straight.
Since the new generation is exposed to holdem and they see how easy it is to get flushes and stright on the river they think it will be just as easy in 5 cards and from my experince it is not.

What con taught you the game?

From a post by Sammy1

This has been taken from the Official hand ranking rules:

• Royal Flush - The best possible hand. Ace, King, Queen, Jack and 10, all of the same suit.
• Straight Flush - A straight flush is a straight (5 cards in order, such as 7-8-9-10-J) that are all of the same suit. As in a regular straight, you can have an ace either high (A-K-Q-J-T) or low (A-2-3-4-5). You can not use the Ace in a wraparound and example would be K-A-2-3-4, which is not a straight.
• Four of a Kind - Four cards of the same rank like four Aces or Four Kings. If there are two or more hands that qualify, the hand with the higher-rank four of a kind wins.
• Full House - A full house is a three of a kind and a pair, such as K-K-K-2-2. When there are two full houses the tie is broken by the three of a kind. An example would be J-J-J-5-5 would beat 9-9-9-A-A. If for some reason the three of a kind cannot determine the victor then you go to the pair to decide (this would only happen in a game with wild cards).
  
• Flush - A flush is a hand where all of the cards are the same suit, such as A-J-9-7-5, all of Diamonds. When flushes ties, follow the rules for High Card.
• Straight - Five cards in rank order, but not of the same suit (it can be any combination of the four suits). An example of a straight is 2-3-4-5-6. The Ace can either be high or low card, either A-2-3-4-5 or 10-J-Q-K-A. Wraparounds are not allowed (an example being K-A-2-3-4). When two straights tie, the highest straight wins, K-Q-J-10-9 would beat 5-4-3-2-A. If two straights have the same value, AKQJT vs AKQJT, the pot is split.
• Three of a Kind - Three cards of any rank with the remaining cards not being a pair (that would be a full house if it were). Once again the highest ranking three of a kind would win. K-K-K-2-4 would beat Q-Q-Q-2-3. If both are the same rank (only in a wild card game), then the High Card rule come into effect with the remaining two.
• Two Pair - Two distinct pairs of card and a 5th card. The highest ranking pair wins ties. If both hands have the same high pair, the second pair wins. If both hands have the same pairs, the high card wins.
• Pair - One pair with three distinct cards. Highest ranking pair wins. High card breaks ties.
• High Card - When a hand has none of the above qualifications of any of the ones listed above, nobody has even a pair or better, then it comes down to who is holding the highest ranking card. If there is a tie for the high card then the next high card determines the pot, if that card is a tie than it continues down till the third, fourth, and fifth card. The High card is also used to break ties when the high hands both have the same type of hand (pair, flush, straight, etc).

The only place trips beats a straight is in 3 card guts.

The con in question is my father.
That is the rules i grew up playing with and since i havn't played this game here in the states i never looked up the rules.

Eventhough a striaght beats trips I still wouldnt break up a pair for a draw because if I am ahead I want to stay ahead.

I grew up playing 5 card draw in Italy (it was the only game there) and even if they play a totally different version of it I can still play this one. Pink Floyd and Bubbasbest are correct in saying you should keep the pair and not draw for the straight. As was pointed out a high percentage of hands are won by high pair/2 pairs. The whole idea of counting the 8 outs and figuring implied odds is borrowed from holdem and as pink said you shouldn't apply holdem logic to 5 card draw for many reasons, the 2 games are totally different.

I also agree with dj the game should have antes and not blinds.

Yah, but in the instace originally sighted, sixes are not gonnaa be the best hand in a six player hand very often, and your chances of improving by keeping the 6 and drawung 3 are not hugely better than dumping the 6 abd drawing 1 to the open straight.. Still, it's not an automatic choice either way, but at level 1, I'd go for the bigger hand, and never look back.