Are PP a leak in my game?

#1 19th May 2009, 2:43 AM

I am wondering if I am playing pocket pairs correctly.
I don't mean AA/KK/QQ, but rather the smaller ones. Lets say 99 on down.

I am asking because yesterday I believe I was playing almost mistake free, (should of called a coinflip because of pot odds, chased once), was winning some nice pots, but ended up barely breaking even for the day after almost six hours of play.

All I can figure is it had something to do with the inordinate number of pocket pairs I was dealt yesterday. I probably averaged one every four or five hands, all but one less then JJ. I even remember one stretch where I had five pocket pairs over the course of seven hands.
Pretty nice you say? Not one of them hit the flop, or even ended up being an overpair.
As you can guess, limping or calling with those cards sucked a lot of money from my stack.

Now I am wondering, what do you do with the non-premium pairs you are dealt?

Me, I try to:

1.) Limp with them in order to see a flop.
2.) Call a reasonable pre-flop raise.
3.) Muck them if overcards hit and people came out betting.

Now I am wondering, how do you play middling pocket pairs? Was I merely unlucky? Do you find it just not cost effective to play the smaller ones below, lets say 88?

Any insights would be appreciated.

#2 19th May 2009, 3:07 AM

Well the way I'll play them is I will usually open with a raise, and proceed with a c-bet (of course this depends, if I have chips). I will also call a standard raise with them, with hopes of connecting on the flop. if a bunch of limper in front of me, I'll probally just call. maybe a raise. And if short stack, I probally will just push.

#3 19th May 2009, 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumpy620_84

I am wondering if I am playing pocket pairs correctly.
I don't mean AA/KK/QQ, but rather the smaller ones. Lets say 99 on down.

I am asking because yesterday I believe I was playing almost mistake free, (should of called a coinflip because of pot odds, chased once), was winning some nice pots, but ended up barely breaking even for the day after almost six hours of play.

All I can figure is it had something to do with the inordinate number of pocket pairs I was dealt yesterday. I probably averaged one every four or five hands, all but one less then JJ. I even remember one stretch where I had five pocket pairs over the course of seven hands.
Pretty nice you say? Not one of them hit the flop, or even ended up being an overpair.
As you can guess, limping or calling with those cards sucked a lot of money from my stack.

Now I am wondering, what do you do with the non-premium pairs you are dealt?

Me, I try to:

1.) Limp with them in order to see a flop.
2.) Call a reasonable pre-flop raise.
3.) Muck them if overcards hit and people came out betting.

Now I am wondering, how do you play middling pocket pairs? Was I merely unlucky? Do you find it just not cost effective to play the smaller ones below, lets say 88?

Any insights would be appreciated.

Cash games or Tournament? Deep stacked or short stacked.

At the simpliest you want to play small pp's for implied odds, but there are many exceptions to this. This works best with deep stacks. That is why I asked cash games or tournaments as stacks tend to be deeper in cash games.

Really much more information is needed in order to help you. Try posting or reading hands in the Hand Analysis sections to get an idea of what you might be doing wrong.

#4 19th May 2009, 9:32 PM

Unless you get lucky and hit sets, you won't win with pocket pairs using that basic strategy. You can't be scared every time an overcard hits. Either stop calling raises preflop with them or start being more aggressive post flop with them.

#5 19th May 2009, 9:58 PM

If I'm in late position (or sometimes even middle depending on the table) I will raise these up and then C-bet on the flop. If you're finding that too many people are calling your pre-flop raises for this to be effective, then you need to increase the size of your raise.

If I get a pocket pair <88 in early position I usually just throw it away. Its a money waster IMO.

This also depends on the stakes you are playing. At 50NL it seems that people catch onto my raises/cbets and will float me a lot....but then when I do hit my set I find a lot of people stacking off against me with TPTK.

Honestly a majority of the time if you limp into the hand and then someone in a later position raises up the pot and takes on the roll as the aggressor its hard to play low pocket pairs. This is why I don't like limping in. Usually I only limp like that if I know setmining is going to be profitable and a raiser infront of me is ~100BB deep and fairly aggressive.

#6 19th May 2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumpy620_84

I am wondering if I am playing pocket pairs correctly.
I don't mean AA/KK/QQ, but rather the smaller ones. Lets say 99 on down.

I am asking because yesterday I believe I was playing almost mistake free, (should of called a coinflip because of pot odds, chased once), was winning some nice pots, but ended up barely breaking even for the day after almost six hours of play.

All I can figure is it had something to do with the inordinate number of pocket pairs I was dealt yesterday. I probably averaged one every four or five hands, all but one less then JJ. I even remember one stretch where I had five pocket pairs over the course of seven hands.
Pretty nice you say? Not one of them hit the flop, or even ended up being an overpair.
As you can guess, limping or calling with those cards sucked a lot of money from my stack.

Now I am wondering, what do you do with the non-premium pairs you are dealt?

Me, I try to:

1.) Limp with them in order to see a flop.
2.) Call a reasonable pre-flop raise.
3.) Muck them if overcards hit and people came out betting.

Now I am wondering, how do you play middling pocket pairs? Was I merely unlucky? Do you find it just not cost effective to play the smaller ones below, lets say 88?

Any insights would be appreciated.

To answer your actual question of whether they are a leak or not....well just use PT or HEM and look at the pocket pairs. If you find that you are losing money on a lot of the lower pocket pairs then you need to change how you are playing them. If you don't have PT or HEM then go download one of them....they both have free trials.

#7 19th May 2009, 10:23 PM

i was just wondering what are PT and HEM

many thanks Daleyboy

#8 19th May 2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daleyboy1234

i was just wondering what are PT and HEM

many thanks Daleyboy

Poker Tracker and Hold'em Manager, two programs that track how your statistics as well as opponents' by looking at your hand histories. Most good online players use them to find and fix leaks in their game, and also to exploit leaks in others' games.

#9 20th May 2009, 12:01 AM

So poker tracker and HEM are just sites online anyone can check out?

#10 20th May 2009, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HipHopStoner

So poker tracker and HEM are just sites online anyone can check out?

I believe they both have trial periods you can try them for free. I own pokertracker 2&3, Poker Office, I and tried HEM. I personally prefered HEM, but they're all great programs.

#11 20th May 2009, 2:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HipHopStoner

So poker tracker and HEM are just sites online anyone can check out?

Goto the video section and watch WV Hillbilly. He has PT3 and explains what the numbers are.

Its not a download just click and watch.
http://blip.tv/file/2056138

Here is a demo of HEM

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/...em-Manager-HUD

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