PLO: stacking pre

I was going to post this in the hand analysis section but I thought it was more instructive to put it here. This is pretty high variance but this is the type of hand I'm going to 3-bet OOP pretty much 90% of the time. When it gets 4-/5-bet we'd normally see a flop when we are this deep, but with effective stacks this shallow we're getting it in 100% of the time, IMO.

This is high variance but I believe we always have great equity here unless we are dominated in some way, which is rare. This is about 100% of the time AAxx and another hand that AAxx dominates, in which case we'll probably be a small underdog or have something like this:

AAxx: 40%
QJT8: 44%
Axxx: 16%

run some stoves against AAxx and other possible stacking hands (likely KKxx or big AKQT or AJJx or Axxx DS type hands) and you'll see we are almost always good against this range.

note I think it's crucial to understand that we don't do this with a pair in our hand or with an A or K as these hands are going to be dominated quite a bit, we want to be drawing as live as possible against likely big pair hands.


$0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($4.68)
UTG+1 ($9.75)
CO ($6.46)
BTN ($7.88)
SB ($22.74)
Hero (BB) ($32.06)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 6 players) Hero is BB Q♦ 10♠ 8♣ J♦
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.20, CO calls $0.20, 1 fold, SB calls $0.15, Hero raises to $0.60, UTG+1 raises to $2.20, CO goes all-in $6.46, SB folds, Hero raises to $21.78, UTG+1 goes all-in $7.55

Flop: 10♣ Q♥ K♣ ($38.19, 3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: 10♦ ($38.19, 3 players, 2 all-in)

River: 4♠ ($38.19, 3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $38.19
UTG+1 shows two pair, Aces and Tens
A♥ 9♠ A♠ Q♠
CO shows two pair, Aces and Tens
6♣ A♣ 3♠ A♦
Hero shows a full house, Tens full of Queens
Q♦ 10♠ 8♣ J♦

Hero wins $36.45 (net +$14.67)

UTG+1 lost $9.75
CO lost $6.46
SB lost $0.20

in this case we're up against two AAxx hands, and neither of them really premium AAxx hands, we're a favorite:
Ac6c3sAd 35.91%

AsQs9sAh 23.45%

QdJdTs8c 40.65%

Are we only a favourite because we have two AAxx hands against us though? Are we a favourite against one? I do agree it's the perfect type of hand against AAxx though.

Oh and I'm not an expert or anything but I thought UTG+1's hand would be considered fairly premium?

Waiting for marginal obviously .....

Marginal shall post in this epic thread he will... soon after his studying.

Ahhh yes, the studying, it is very important to him. As it should be. I wait patiently.

Naked AA is rarely a winner, and position and reads determine how to play. Shoving to get HU helps, but PLO is a multiway mutidraw stacking game, and naked AA is nothing to write mother about.

Stacking such a strong ss rundown isn't necessarily standard, but not uncommon is it? esp w the amount of dead money in the pot in the example hand?

I'd be willing to call with multiple people in the pot with a draw heavy hand in PLO, but I prefer not to stack off. Probably would not with the hand you have - dominated too much but higher wrap draws (10JQK) but more importantly just one flush draw, and onoly semi straight. But that's just me

It's not the worst thing in the world I guess... I don't love it.

Assuming neither opponent is a maniac and they are only doing this with reasonable hands, you can be pretty damn sure there is an AAxx out there somewhere.

Heads up against a random AAxx hand we are a 60/40 dog.

Three ways this gets more interesting. Really the only way your equity will EVER be this high is if you are up against two AAxx hands like you are here and that is not going to happen hardly ever.

Most of the time you will be up against (again assuming villains are somewhat sane) AAxx and probably either KKxx or another good rundown.

The problem with this is that AA is a straight up favorite over you and if there is another good rundown you two will likely be fighting for each others outs which is a bad thing.

Here's a couple more likely scenarios:

AAxx vs KKxx vs QJT8 is 45/24/31 (you are the 31).

AAxx vs say KQT7 vs QJT8 is 52/22/25 roughly (you are the 25)


so basically... assume you are up against an AA hand... you are virtually 99% of the time here up against one AA hand. If you also assume the other guy has something premium then I don't really like stacking this off but it's kinda sorta close I guess.

If you think one (or both) villains could be spazzing out with god knows what that changes things entirely.




With lots of crazy action multiway and this type of hand I prefer to flat rather than shove and commit on any halfway decent or better flop. If we totally miss, well just let the aces have it cause they are never going anywhere.

If you can get more than !half your stack preflop with really any AA hand in omaha it's a profitable move virtually always.

heads up is preferred, as it gets multiway you probably want stronger AA hands but you also need to get less in preflop.

I do not necessarily like shoving for the reasons tygran stated above. Another thing to consider if they were deep is that people never fold AA postflop after 3 betting/4 betting pre which allows us to play our hand pretty easily. Waiting for the flop to hit where you can always get the money in is not a bad situation, we can fold out all flops that completely miss our hand saving half a stack and get the other half in when we flop something half decent/ have much more equity in the flop. I just prefer to see a flop before sticking in most of my stack with a hand like this in plo.

in this specific hand I don't think there's any FE but I also don't think he's flatting for half his stack regardless of what he rr with...gotta figure CO is dead money and we can't really ever fold imo.

P.s. I think the most likely scenario is AAxx vs. Axxx double suited or AKJT...

our hand vs. AAxx and AKxx

AA -- 42.87
QJT8 -- 34.45
AK -- 22.68

I'd rather strongly disagree actually.. in part because combinatorically if you are already giving one guy two aces it's less likely someone else has one.

Besides, if you think the other guys has AAxx you do NOT want an ace in your hand at all. KQJT > AKQJ when going up against AAxx for example.


and AK** is NOT a strong hand without a good **. if you see someone stacking a mediocre/bad AKxx hand mark them as a massive fish immediately.

Very well said txs.