| This is a discussion on Player notes within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; ive not been playing poker online for too long but im looking to improve my game etc. one tip ive read on these forums is ... |
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| Player notes ive not been playing poker online for too long but im looking to improve my game etc. one tip ive read on these forums is that i should try to add notes for most/every player i come across. what sort of tells do you guys look for and what type of things should i put into player notes?? help appreciated! |
| Play Texas Hold'em Online Poker | Player notes | |
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#2 | ||||
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| Betting patterns, what types of hands a certain player plays preflop, what hands that player calls raises with preflops and how much they bet with certain big hands they show, how much they bet when bluffing, ect. Any information you think is relevant, just write it down. I never take notes live, but online, I do it all the time. |
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#5 | ||||
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| i generally take notes on good players i see playing in tourneys so if i see them later on in the tourney i might have sumtin on them ie betting patterns or are aggressive or tight. if i see chasers who are catching regurarly i might make a note but i wont be to bothered because they will usually get kncked out quickly |
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#6 | ||||
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| re: Player notes poker Quote:
In the meantime, I should point out that pokertracker and a HUD will give you a lot of statistics that can replace some note taking chores. Obviously if someone has vp$ip of 85% you don't have to note "any suited face card, any position" anymore. |
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#7 | ||||
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Only one thing I might add, a tip I read in a magazine I think: any time you are at the final table of a reasonably large tourney, put a $ symbol in the notes of every other player there. That way, if you sit down at a table with a guy and find two or three $$ in the notes you made on him previously, you know immediately that he is a strong tournament player. |
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#9 | ||||
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| Found it! Again, kindly note that none these three articles were written by me... Player Note Examples I'll start off by saying that everyone should take player notes at Party Poker. Don't know how to take notes? Just right-click on the avatar (picture) of the target player and click "Player Notes" - it's that easy. The hard part is figuring what to take notes of however. So that's where I'll try to help. Here is a template of my player notes: (Tricky/Good/Ok/Poor) :: (Tight/Semi-Tight/Loose)/(Maniac/Agg/Solid/Caller/Passive) :: (PSER / NO PS) :: (BLUFFER!)(Tricky/Good/Poor) This is my overall view of the player when I need to take a quick look and figure them out. You should usually only note this down after many hands, when you have got a good sense of whether or not this player is a complete moron (poor) or card shark (Good/Tricky/Solid). This is most useful actually after you've left the table and meet this person again somewhere down the road. This piece of information alone will give you a good idea of how to deal with this person. (Tight/Loose/Maniac) A very important note to take down when you need information. Tight players are those that are selective about their hands and won't see too many pots or showdowns. Loose players are the opposite and will play many hands. So for example, when a tight player is in the pot with you and is raising what seems like rags on the board, you should start to get a hunch that they're either holding complete crap or have a monster like trips waiting for you. For poor players however, they could quite likely have paired the rags. If there are high cards on the table however, a tight player will more likely to have paired, while the poor player is more likely to not have paired, or is holding a weak kicker. (Maniac/Agg/Solid/Caller/Passive) This is the demeanor of the player, which combined with how Tight/Loose they are, should tell you *a lot* about their hand strength. Maniacs are people who bet everything under the sun and bluff at all sorts of pots. Agg means aggressive, which doesn't necessarily mean bluffer, but this person will bet with any kind of strength, be it a draw, low pair, mid pair, Ace high and so on. Solid is a player who plays the game straight up, meaning they'll bet strong cards and fold when they are weak or have nothing. Callers are those who don't bet often, but will call many bets and raises to the river. Passive players are Callers who just never, ever, ever bet. So, an example combination would be Loose/Caller, which should tell you this guy is going to be in the pot with you with just about anything, so you shouldn't always be afraid if he calls your raise. If you have a Tight/Solid player however, then any bets or calls from this guy could be a warning sign for you. (PSER / NO PS): Short for "Pot stealer" or "Pot shooter". This means this person will bet at the pot when it's been checked to them and they are in late position. I find this specific piece of information very useful, because while many players just don't bluff, many players do like to try and steal the pot in this situation. Players who consistently do this, you can setup with a check-raise trap or even a check-raise bluff. A lot of times when you also want to make a call, this is important information when you want to know if someone is just trying to steal the pot or actually has strength. (BLUFFER!): This is an optional tag that I don't use often, but when I do, it means this player is a major bluffer and needs to be called down when there is ANY shred of doubt. A number of players will *always* raise/re-raise a trip or flush threat (among other things) to try and scare people out. These players need to be called or raised if you have any kind of strength (although that said, watch out for players with stronger hands calling the bluffer too). (Tell Descriptor): I don't have anything written for this field for most players, simply because in my opinion, tells are a bit overrated than what they actually are. Especially in online poker. That being said, some players *do* have tells that will give their hand away. The most common descriptors you'll see in my notes are simple and to the point:
This is getting into the fine details of this person's behavior. This is where you specifically write down what kinds of hands this player bets with. Does he only bet with top pair, or with low pair and mid pair too? What kind of kicker does he bet with? (very important!). By tracking these, you can then figure out what category of player this person falls into (Agg/Solid/Caller/Passive). No bets: (Draw / Top pair / Mid pair / Weak kicker / Low pair, etc): Exact opposite of the above, you can also tell a lot about a player by what they're *not* willing to bet. Are they the type to just check on the flop if they have trips? Do they not bet their flush/straight draw? Will they not raise with a King high flush? Little notes like these can give you a fine aspect of this person's game. PR or PF (Cards): Short for "pre-flop raise". Also referred to as PF. What I list after PR is the actual hands I see this person pre-flop raising with. This is usually very important information, because you will always stand to lose the most money when you hold a dominated hand. And most of the time, you won't know if you're dominated until you flip those cards over. Because most people only raise strong cards pre-flop, you can tell with varying degrees of success how powerful your opponents' cards are. A large group of players will only raise three hands: AA, KK and AK. If you can catch onto this and note it down, the next time they PR, you'll know to fold your hand quite quickly, even if you're holding a hand like AJ or possibly even AQ - which will save you lots of money in the long haul. Versus a hyper-aggressive player, if you notice them raising pre-flop with K2o, you'll also be well prepared to call their PR if you hold ATo or another moderately strong hand. NOPR or NOPF (Cards): Short for "no pre-flop raise", the exact opposite of the above. Why mention this? Sometimes, there are players who never raise AA, KK, AKs, QQ, JJ or many other strong hands. Then suddenly, they'll bite you on the flop with some unexpected raises. By recording this information down, you can possibly tell if that person is hiding something strong that they didn't let anyone know about pre-flop. TRN (Cards): Short for "Train" as in the locomotive. I use this metaphor when someone will pretty much bet these hands to the river without any hesitation or thought; when they've already decided before the flop what they plan on doing. This is not a compliment. What this usually indicates is that this person will over play certain hands because he/she thinks they are strong and can just force people out of the pot. A common theme is marking people as "TRN: AK", which means they will bet big-slick like there is no tommorow, even if they don't pair on the river. I also use it when they train a draw, like "TRN: flush draw", as many people seem to fall under that category. p (Cards): Short for "plays". This is a listing of what kind of cards this particular player will play. An example would be "p: 95o,A5s,23s.." and so on. This is useful because a quick look at your notes will tell that this player is a garbage collector, as opposed to another player with the notes "p: ATs, KQ, AJ, TT..". An important thing to mention is to ignore the players in the big and small blind when taking notes on what hands they play, since they'll automatically be playing those hands for the most part. Other acronyms I use when taking player notes also:
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#10 | ||||
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| Wow Aliengenius, these are all 3 very interesting articles that everyone should give a look at and possibly print out. They are just a great example of how online poker can give alot of info that is commonly underestimated by players who only play live and think its impossible to spot tells behind a computer screen. Taking notes on players is definitely a good practice since you quite often find yourself playing against opponents that you have faced before, and that happens not only in ring games but in tourneys just as well, as seen in the 2nd article. For players like me who have never taken notes and are unsure of what exactly to track down, these 3 articles offer an opportunity to start doing so in different fashions. Perhaps it's better to refer to the 1st article in the beginning since its skinnier (it has only 8 categories of which the 1st 2 are similar and the 8th doesn't present too often). Simplicity is the key there and I believe it is the best approach with anything new. Later on move to next 2 once you become faster in processing more finer aspects. These last 2 offer many ways to add significant details w/o flooding your notes with pointless info. So far I've taken notice mostly if a player is loose or aggressive but as these articles clearly reveal there is much more that is worth to know and store about other players. Also, I find it irrelevant that you didn't write these articles. What matters is that you took the time to post them. These articles, together with D. Malorkus's thread on pokertracker are the best I have read on this forum so far in terms of "tools" that can improve your game. Thank you very much. |
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| Being pretty new to poker, I had no idea of what was a good way to take notes. I've heard a lot of ways, and was using the an adaption of the one Phil Hellmuths' book, the animal descriptions for the various loose, tight, passive, and aggressive combinations. Not bad for a starting system, but information in this post will help me figure out a way that works best for me. Thanks for posting these articles. |
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| Nice post! I am going to print them all out (as I cant read that much text on screen) and keep them by my desk for regular reading! I do write things like "total donkey idiot" and thats about as far as I ever go regarding note taking currently! Cheers aliengenius! |
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#21 | ||||
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| Thanks AG Just started reading this, I will have to come back as I dont have the time to fully digest it right now. Its something that I have been meaning to ask for a few days now.. note taking. I think the problem is an inexperienced player knows he should take notes, but dosnt know what he should take notes on. The thing here is the word note. everyone is capable of writing an essay of what just happened.. but if you include too much info when notetaking, its as bad as not taking notes at all, because it then becomes impossible to pull out the relevent pieces of infomation when it is needed. AG would you be able to post some of your real notes on people.. I just want to see what 'real' notes look like. |
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#26 | ||||
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| haha, as nerdy as i can be, i never thought of designing a template for notes. its usually just a quick deal. i've been multitabling a lot either micro or free so its hard to take notes because i have a lot less time. however when i just have a single table going, i'm taking notes like a mad man. if you're not a note taker, you'd really be surprised how they eventually come in handy. if you've played for an hour at a table with some guy at some point, and taken notes on a few key hands (or several, especially if he's awful), you have the inside scoop over everybody else...especially if you're in position with a horrible player you have notes on, your range can open up quite a bit...why let him steal all those pots from everybody else in the first bunch of hands that don't know about him? today i was in a sng...player in there i had notes on from i don't know when that said "std raise with 52o, re-raised a re-raise, went all in, sucked out QQ"...the third hand of the sng, i had AK...he min-raised...i 3x raised his raise, and he shoved....i shove and he turns over 68s. i hit my both A and K on the flop and he rainbowed his way to bye-bye land. i mean, ok, that's just one god awful player, but had i not had those notes, i probably would have been a little more nervous. things i like to take note on consistantly: -limps AA,KK,QQ,AK,AQ...immediately noted -shoves AA,KK,QQ,AK,AQ regardless of their stack (maybe this is due to bad beats) -overbets...preflop raises 5-10xBB, postflop bets pot-sized or way over the size of the pot. i really want to see what cards they hold here. i really hope they stick around long enough to get to see. -cold calling/check-calling, doesn't lay down top, middle, bottom pair...this really comes in handy when you have AK or something and you miss, or when you have AA and they have a pair of 5s. if this is a pattern they've established,you know when to keep the pot big or small and take your chances against them having trips. cold calling is usually their mistake...this also relates to chasers...ppl with a shot at a straight or a flush. if you know they're going to call an all-in, call any bet, or check-check...there's no need for me to pay them big until the odds are truly in my favor -protects blind...will call any std raise to their blind with whatever. this is truly an AK killer...watch it with the c-bets here definitely. -chronic limper...limps any two cards...calls any ol raise -career check-raiser...this is often a noob. AA limper, min-raise a bet, pot raise a bet...check and raise with nuts...other than that, they're pretty passive. these are people who will fold anything but AA and KK preflop if they can't limp them in. and there's also just the passive fish. play every two cards and any raise they see reasonable enough to call with their JTo. the former will fold anything or raise you after checking...the latter will either fold or call... -the shit talker...when does he talk shit? he's giving you and everyone else tells and he doesn't even understand it. for instance, you're playing 6 sngs. there's 4 ppl left in the one he's in, you're the shortstacker and haven't played a hand in a little while...he's talking trash about you. that's a leak in his game...he doesn't know you're the chip leader in 3 other games, he's just playing one. its bothering him that you folded. he wants you gone so he's itm. he's tilting. he's worth the coinflip with any marginal hand so he can either say "thank god that amateur is gone" or he tilts beyond belief and bubbles because your K2s shove on his blind was good against his Q9 that he decided to call you with. he feels its his duty to concentrate on knocking you out, and forgets about the other players...that's great, because so often, i realize i've monied and he's gone, and check the hand history, and he's tried to raise in the cutoff and forgot about the guy on the button...trying to get to me...sweet deal. make note of the guys you can tilt, its not your fault they play every hand, i'll play high card with them any day. -the i think you're bluffing guy. yeah, everyone's out to get you...but there's some hands and some bets to just not call a bluff with, go hump mel gibson or something its not a conspiracy. -loves a-rag. not gonna lay it down, not ever ever ever gonna lay down ace-anything. there's a plus and a minus to this to your AK. they called your raise with an A6...and the flop is A62. hey man, not cool...especially if they're just gonna call you down...that's something to take note of i could think of a lot more but i don't want to think too hard. there's something you must keep in mind in tournament play. "shoved 26o on me in the sb" is usually not worthy of taking note of if they've got 3BB's left. or "called all-in with 74o" when they're on the BB and the bb is 400 and it only costs him another 300 to call...i'll shove any two cards on anyone if i'm that short and call with any two cards on my blind if it costs me jack-shat to call. you have to keep situation in mind...where the time has expired as far as waiting to get dealt AA. that's just part of the game. so i try to take notes on things i find interesting. i flag ppl for decent play too...i find it harder to take notes on good players. and you have to keep in mind just because someone didn't play it the way you would have doesn't really mean they were wrong. sometimes you have to do something rather donktastic, and sometimes you will get caught...its cool...maybe they'll take notes on you too. Last edited by ted80 : 6th October 2009 at 7:05 AM. |
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#27 | ||||
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| I probably should note more. I've actually found that the players I benefit most from noting are the poor players. Noting what kind of hands they will play pre flop or won't let go of even when they miss seems to be what helps me the most. I don't note the good players as much as I tend to actually remember them more. |
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Number of Posts: 29
Number of Authors: 24