PL Omaha hi/lo pocket pair decision

Hi all.

An area I come up against time and again is this one.

All preflop.

Middle/ late position u are delt a pocket pair without support - a few examples

AhAd9s10c
QhQd4s2c
KhKdJs4c

Do you get my drift?

So, u get the chance to flat call after 2 limpers with the blinds to act and 2 others.

So,

1. Do you call
2. If the pot is raised what do you do (is it a pure pot odds decision?)

I might be leaking here so any help would be appreciated

The Queens go in the muck for me due to the 2 4 remainder of the holding. A A 10 9 is limped on implied odds combined with 2 limpers infront. KK is playable for a limp but it's very marginal. I'd play it due to the jack. But both these hands are limpers generally. You can always play the aces to a single caller even raised. But your playing with fire if better than 1/2 pot cost preflop. Change the 9 to a jack and make those aces double suited and you have a terrific raising hand in Omaha high.
You can look at all paired hands as potential "set mining opportunities. But unlike holdem those other 2 cards each player holds makes the hiden set a little less valuable on implied odds. Due to the frequency of big draws including jumbo draws. IE flush/straight combo or double flush after the turn. The percentage to hold up just isn't as good when you do flop the set. I've found even a little room above your painted pair is tough to play if an ace hits. Your into the muck on pretty minimium pressure if you miss your set.

I'll leave this rather than fix it and pretend I didn't goof. Just left a comment on a previous Omaha Hi thread and forgot it's hi/lo. I'm an idiot! Ok I play the hi first at a Omaha hi/lo game. Thus I'm good to go on AA and KK. But QQ 2 4 is worth a limped looked also. Everything about implied odds thinking still applies from above. Don't go chasing the low with the QQ without some hi draw possibilities postflop or a 1 card nut low draw(ie A 3 X flop). Reraise any set postflop or if unraised bet pot to make all draws pay. Inparticular make the low draws pay. That's without a suited board or 3 near connected cards. All these hands are really only "limp worthy" at a Omaha hi/lo game IMHO.

I think you limp in with these. The worst IMO is the kkj4 hand with that dangler 4.

The AA9T rainbow hand has a lot of play in it, just tone it way down unless you get the rainbow flop. Got a gazillion non flush outs, worth seeing.

The QQ42 rainbow hand has lots of play either way in H/L. Again, your nemisis is the flushing flop. Worth set mining. Fairly easy to get away from if you don't hit the flop in some meaningful way.

The KKJ4 rainbow hand also has some play, set mining mainly, but the hi str8 makes it fine to see cheaply.

In any case, if you've got players who seem to want to cap the betting every round, the only hand that almost demands seeing is the AA9T hand. But even then, since flushes are so prevalent in Omaha, if the flop comes flushy then you need to re-evaluate.

One of the elements of control you do have in Omaha is pot control. It is insane to push push push thinking you can bluff in Omaha. There is NO pocket holding that is absolutely dominating. It is a river game.

Also, Always keep in mind that H/L will always have a high hand, but not every hand splits with low. This has the impact of making pockets like 789T or 3456 double suited as powerful preflop as any hand you can imagine. Of course AA23 double suited could be one of the royalty of Omaha. Along with AAKK ds.

i like high pairs lo pairs i only ply suited or connected

Agree with dj on this one. All three hands are worth calling the blind; how much more than that can be debated. The Q's are of course the weakest hand, but even with the 4 2 will get some winning low hands. Worth set-mining or boat-building ...

Very good point dj makes, too! Capped betting in Omaha is (nearly always) braindead! It's a game of draws. I've lost far too many times with the best cards at the turn, only to have my whole hand counterfeited at the river ...

t1

i play a lot hi lo
and made some good winnings
my tactics are simpel
i go with i cal a hi lo hand
like 9 10 3 5
like a nice suited connector and a possible nice lo
i dont play the pockets big
i dont raise with them
hand like 10 10 55
i even dont play with them
try it out youl see it works
grtz

see you at the tables

Please dont take the advice of someone who thinks 9,t,3,5 is a good hand

I think all 3 hands are worth a limp. You need a good flop fit to continue with any of them though including the AA hand. I would fold all of them to a raise. High pairs are one of the most overrated holding in O/8.

I think the weakest of the 3 is the KKJ4 hand. The dangler 4 really weakens this hand. This is the one I would be most likely to fold. O/8 is played with 4 cards. You essentially only have 3. That is a serious disadvantage.

I don't mind the QQ24 hand for a limp in late position. It's not a great holding but it does have hi and lo potential.

The AA910 hand is the strongest not so much for the AA but because it also has 9 10 and A 10 and you can get away from it if the flop comes out with low cards.

Another thing to consider, which I don't think was mentioned is whether you are playing Limit or Pot Limit. These play very differently. Limit is as stated but for PL I would fold all but the AA unless I was last to act. If nobody showed aggression infront of me I would raise the AA hand. You have alot of high potential and if the flop is low you can get away from it if you have to.

I think it Depends i mean if u got As Ah 9s 10d Then id limp cause u might get more outs due to flush draws. if u got like 4 cards and none suited then if u dont hit the flop hard ur pretty much in for a long night but like the hands u posted none where suited. but u might just take a chance with em and try to hit a set.

I heard a very good tip once on hi/lo and have tried to play it that way ever since with some success - only play for the hi hand.

Sure if you have 'danglers' all fine and good but dont go looking in the pot for a lo as even if you hit, it could only be for 1/4 of the pot (possibly even losing chips then).

Also an A in the hand is always a bonus as if you do miss the hi you improve your lo chances.

It is amazing how many fish players only ever call their hand, once you know you have a top hand, dont be afraid of raising - the others often follow

I personally think this is a very good point and I have argued this on a number of occassions.

However, the way I normally do it now is try to limp with 3 or more `Royal` cards. If I get massivley raised I will fold, knowing if the cards are all low I`m done for.

From a slightly different angle, I was told this

Limp with any 3 from A, K, Q, J, 10, any 3 lo from A, 2, 3, 4, 5, any 2 pairs. Suited or 4 of the same is a bonus.

Getting back to your origional point. A lo hand only happens 70% of the time. So, IMO, u need a lo hand with high hand possibilities (Ah2h3d9d type - giving u straight and flush potential.) So, if u go for lo without possible hi, u r trying to win 50% of the pot 70% of the time if u r not 1/4rd, if that makes sense!!!

The idea in HiLo games is to scoop, simple as that. Alot of books will talk about only playing 1st/2nd nut low holdings (a2xx/a3xx) but this seems illogical to me.

At the end of the day there is ALWAYS a hi hand, and 3 low cards on board about 2/3 of the time.

I would avoid trying to play just for the high hand, simply because if there is a lo on board you are almost certainly going to split the pot, and you may even get three-quartered.
I would avoid playing just for the low for the same reason.

Big Pairs mean very little pre-flop unless you can bet enough to get heads-up, when you do you want to see a non-scary high flop (2/3 hi cards).

one of the main differences between hi/lo and hi only are hands like 6789 which may be good in omaha are terrible in omaha hi/lo as even if you hit the highest part of your staight the vastt majority of the time you are only playing for half a pot and with straights they get tied alot so maybe only 1/4.